"Learn to code"

[Howaboutnope]

I've read this on a few threads recently - IT is where the money is at. But its all double dutch to me- I'd love to learn and try a new career and earn more money but I'm 34 and really don't have much IT knowledge bar the basics and using a laptop everyday. Is it really that easy to learn?! And how does it translate into a new career? Tips for dummies welcome!

Thanks so much for that info Namenic. That was actually precisely what I was looking for. I am hoping to continue learning more about databases both query language and also development of databases and just see where that leads me.

Sorry should have tagged you in above message

This also really pisses me off.
where I currently work (traditional, blue chip company) we actually have a lot more opportunités for ‘non-technical’ people.
Project Manageew, Governance Analysts, delivery managers, product managers. Service Managers.

In fact we sort of have an ‘issue’ because there’s no technical path to promotion, so good devs just leave, but that’s another story.

EVERY TIME one of these ‘learn to code’ threads pop up .. I keep thinking… there’s so much out there! Why code? Why spend loads of time learning something that stresses you out, if all you want is £££?

im the opposite, was a non-technical analyst. Helped the devs, did better than a couple of STEM/CompSci grads so boss kept me on.

However I have coached many many people and pointed a lot of them towards other careers. Where they’re making a packet. In fact probably rose to the top faster than if they’d ‘learnt to code’.

please DO NOT learn to code if you just want money. It’s a waste of time. There are easier routes.

Re: Easier routes to money. Middle management did far less and received more. But sadly had the indignity of being in a client/dev sandwich.

I remember a window cleaner, who did the town by foot first thing. Would wash your windows, raise a smile, infer he always did your shop front, collect cash. Done in less than two minutes. Way before lunch his pockets were full. He was always smiling.

Then there was the company that didn't do PPE but won a big contract...

Yeah you are probably right. I know I have been stuck in a room for days, while my handler slurps coffees makes a few phone calls and experiences the jollys of life.

I think this is a very good point @pixie5121 . I work in tech as an operations manager (though also scrum master) and earn a lot more than our senior developers. Coding is for people who love to do it. It's not about the money.

A couple of my relatives are non-technical product owner/manager at fintechs - their previous experience in finance is how they were recruited. They know the domain where the software is used and can talk to external customers to find out what they want and prioritise important features for the devs. Salary is variable like for devs - but can earn more (but they have a lot of meetings - though 1 is fully remote at the moment).

I try and get them to understand Dev point of view - don’t just ignore tech debt or non ‘functional’ features. No devs do not want to collect OKRs on themselves - they want to focus on the tech stuff.

Yes the brilliant thing about being a software developer/engineer in the right company (one where you get to do a lot of design & coding and work on new projects rather than just bug fixing) is that you get paid pretty well to do a job you enjoy! Coding is fun! It has a unique combination of creativity and logical problem solving. In fact, it sometimes feels like I've worked a bit of a con - "wow, so I've tricked someone into paying me a good salary to do this?!"

Also, the conditions are usually good. I've always had managers who have shown they valued me and, as I've become more senior, left me to get on with things. Hours are usually flexible as long as you do core hours e.g.10 to 4 - so you can choose to start work at 10 and finish at 6, or start at 8 and finish at 4. In a decent company, your expertise is valued and you're treated with respect. And I've always liked the other people I've work with.

Still, I've now reached a level of seniority where there isn't really a huge scope for promotion. All the routes leading to higher pay will lead to less coding and more meetings/dealing with people/politics and I'd much rather be spending my time coding. And as a senior dev with 14 years experience, I don't really expect to earn a lot more than a senior dev with 7/8 years experience. Meanwhile, I still have 25 years to go until I retire and will I be able to keep up with new technologies until then? I will always have the option of moving into a more management type role, but that's effectively a completely different job.

So if you're looking for a career just to earn a lot of money, software development isn't it. There are other tech roles that would be much easier for a non techie person to get into and end up earning more than a software dev does. (It's just they're not nearly so much fun).

@HoleLottaLove they’re a bit like HR I find. The best ones make a lot of difference. The worse ones make your jobs harder!
A good project manager (for example) keeps everyone else off the team’s back and just gets me what I want. Their job to wrangle budget, office politics, ‘programs’. Similarly a good business analyst speaks to the customer etc and tells me what to build.

Having done a bit of all these roles in smaller outfits gave me a new appreciation of just how much value they bring when they actually do a good job.

@cunningplan101 you sound like a brilliant coder - coding is only fun if you can do it.

For me I thrive on shaping the delivery of what's being put in, I get depressed if bogged down in detail, although I do like to understand at a high level what's being done.

It is a shame that we don't value skilled developers as much as we should. In our organisation we're heavily reliant on offshore resource from India and the cynical side of me wondered if the push to get women to do it was to replace one cheapish resource source with another home grown one.

@pixie5121

I didn’t either! It’s such a pity. They’re subsumed by the constant ‘learn code’

It’s usually enough to do some online courses, and highlight transferable skills. It depends on your background. Project managent for example - communication, stakeholder management all v.g. Admin staff are usually a great fit (and indeed many of our people are former PA’s). Governance - any background in law, lots of rules etc. I’ve met a lot of ex-teachers, social workers doing this.

Business Analyst, UX design have a specific ‘skill’ and again taking some courses, showing what you can do is good.

Ironically a large number of these people are ‘learn code’ grads. Who managed to put up with it long enough to get a dev job, but hated it. They could have just saved all that money and gone into a non-tech field had they known.

@rookiemere You’re correct. None of this push for ‘women’ in code, or STEM, is about gender equality. Business don’t give a about any of that. Because so few people can actually program well they need to push more people into giving it a go, to have a large enough labour force.

IME companies go through cycles. My current large company had a period, about 15 years ago, when offshoring was all the rage. They still maintain significant offices in India and cheaper European countries, however they’re now recruiting a lot more in the U.K. usually working on strategic pieces related to security, infrastructure etc. Not many pure devs though.

@cunningplan101 same at my current company.
But I guess it’s the same for most jobs. Any ‘individual contributor’ hits a ceiling after a while, no matter how good you are. And while an excellent developer can deliver 10x the value of an ‘average’ dev the multiplier effect still isn’t enough to justify a salary increase in 15 vs 30 years experience. Especially if you’re in a team with other people not ‘as good’. Can’t quite have one person earning 120K, another 80K.

That’s why many of my mentors left to become contractors, or joined software ‘consultancy’ firms.…

Testing is another good area to get into. Used to be the poor relation, but it's definitely not now and doesn't require as strong technical skills. We have a real shortage of decent test managers at our place.

@pixie5121 how do you got into those tech-adjacent roles you’re talking about? Is it worth training in agile management (I have no formal experience there)? I’d assume entry level analysts roles are still looking for Stem (ie quantative)skills?

It's not easy, but if you're computer literate, it can be grasped. There are no 'naturals', only people willing to stick at it and those who aren't, but I do think there's a baseline knowledge of technology that helps. People who refuse to even touch a computer usually struggle a lot.

I assisted in workshops and learning sessions for newcomers and interested people - usually the calmer ones were the ones who grasped it fast, and the Billy Big Balls who thought it would be 'piss easy' would be the ones crashing out after the first session.

I started learning at 33 and was hired as a developer by 35. It is challenging, in a good way, and nothing beats the feeling of new feature and product launches when thousands of customers get their hands on your app/site/whatever. Being a dev is a great career and I recommend it to anyone.

30k is a junior develop salary - anyone still earning that after a year is messing up their career! Maybe that salary is in IT support? But it's not for a software developer. 30k after many years is a joke.

Software developers are exceptionally well paid. IT helpdesk people, not so much. Your 'friends in IT' are either not developers, or they're in third world countries, or they're being so laughably underpaid they must live under rocks.

My first role was £27k, my second £45k. After only two years. After 4 you can start expecting 50-60k. After that? Six figures isn't far away if you can deliver.

Because there is still a shortage of developers, no matter how many 'pre-teens' attempt it. Career-changers are actually well-regarded and desired in the industry. Bootcamps train students in 3 months and get them into Junior roles - companies connect with and partner with the local bootcamps in order to have first pick of the graduates. Loads of jobs and no one to fill them.

And the point is the creative, well-respected, flexible job and massive paycheck.

God, this is upsetting. You really think it's like the Matrix and we stare at numbers? And there's 'no colours' or pictures'?

If you don't know a jot about coding how's about you don't advise people? Because this is the silliest reply to the thread yet.

"Waa waa I couldn't do it" is why there are plenty of jobs, a shortage of devs and ever-rising paychecks - the more of you that quit before you begin and because you've no clue about it, the more for us to share.

Learn Javascript, then React. Once you can build small apps in React, apply for Front-End developer roles. Your CMS experience will limit you to CMS roles, but with React the world's your oyster.

@Lunalae tell me more about the creativity and flexibility please! I’d really like to work around school hours a few days a week, would that be possible? And I’m fascinated by the creative side (have an arts PhD and love problem solving)-in what ways do you see it as creative? Also, what kind of developer are you? Please and thank you 🙂

@Lunalae what kinda stuff is in a front end interview? Would they usually do a coding test?