To understand the attitudes

[OrlaOrka]

I hope I manage to articulate this enough so it makes sense! I have been watching the series on tv Yorkshire midwives on call, and have had a bit of a realisation with language we use around birth
The women having normal deliveries have been told things like ‘well done you’, ‘you’ve done amazing’ etc etc
The women who had a caesarean never had any such thing said to them. I myself have had 2 sections and never had anything like this said to me, and I spoke to a midwife friend who actually confirmed she agrees, women who push babies out often get this kind of praise where as women who have sections don’t often. I don’t know where I’m trying to go with this really but I think it’s going to make me definitely make an effort to any of my friends who have sections in the future tell them how amazing they have done!

I think what I’m interested to know is have any of you found the same? Or I am alone in this? (I really hope I am tbh).

I had an elective c sec for a breech baby, I do feel I had it easy compared to mum’s who had vb/emergency c secs. It didn’t cross my mind to be congratulated, just felt like I was having the easy option (and that’s how the doctor made me feel too!)

I did get a ‘well done’ for being first c sec mum getting up out of bed, catheter out and showered!

Probably because when you have a C-section you just have to lie there. Unless you were 5 years old, why would you expect praise for that?

Wow what a nice person you are

I had an elective c section with my son and have another booked for 4 weeks time. If people find out they always have a lot to say about it 🤷‍♀️ but honestly I know it’s the best thing for me.

All of this!!

I've had one emergency section and one planned. I did get praise as it goes (only remember it with the planned one- dont remember much about the emergency one as i was so tired and high!) but i didn't give a toss either way to be honest! Just happy everything went well.

Do 5 year olds routinely get c-sections?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Well, assuming you aren't my ex in which case fuck off out of Mumsnet, you're 52 years old and your children are all adults now the actual process of a section means that there is significant damage done to muscles, fascia/connective tissue and even if you discount such experiences such as mine where the epidural didn't take properly and I felt the incision and manual tearing of the muscles before they acted, it can be both a physically painful (in terms of post operative pain) and scary (in terms of having abdominal surgery whilst awake) experience. And then women have to recover physically from these injuries whilst simultaneously working 24 hours a day on limited sleep in terms of looking after a baby.

I found the difference between the two - a section and a forceps delivery - like night and day. One I still experienced pain from decades later, the other, all I had to do was be a little careful when sitting down for a couple of weeks. It seems completely illogical to me to dismiss major abdominal surgery as nothing emotionally and physically but treat a normal process as worthy of respect.

There are reasons why other surgeries aren't performed under local anaesthesia. These include the response of the patient during surgery. Perhaps you could campaign for six year olds to only have surgery under epidural? Or ban sick leave for men who have only gone to sleep and woken up again minus their gallbladder?

It doesn't hurt to say nice things to somebody who is in pain and feeling vulnerable or even traumatised. Simple reassurance costs nothing but can make a huge difference emotionally to somebody who is simultaneously dealing with pain, lack of strength in the damaged muscles, severed connective tissue which also has nerve endings, adhesions, uterine contractions whilst also being cut and major hormonal and life changes.

Good to see ageism is alive and well on Mumsnet.
That aside, your experience might make you deserving of sympathy, just like one might expect after any painful surgery. Any effort, however, was provided by the medical team, so if there’s praise to be had, it should all goes to them surely. Let’s just be thankful that, in this day and age, abdominal deliveries are on the whole a safe option and result in providing us with healthy babies. That’s all that matters surely?

@PinkSyCo I am actually amazed that you can think it is as black and white as this. You seem to have the bizarre opinion that women are purely vessels and that we can just lie on an operating table and have a baby sliced out of us and it is as robotic as that. No effort? Are you deluded? Or just an arsehole?

How about the mental and physical effort it took to get to that point? A woman might have already gone through numerous hours of labour. Maybe she’s had a pregnancy where the baby might have conditions that require a delivery by c section. Maybe she’s had a cord prolapse. Or maybe it’s just her choice on how she wants to birth her baby, it’s certainly not no effort on her behalf let me tell you that.
You are disregarding the experience, the being in an environment with a team full of medical professionals, having a spinal put in, lying on the table waiting for it to work all the while you are shivering and shaking from a combination of adrenaline and anaesthetic. The feeling of a surgeons hands inside your actual body. Your body being cut open in 7 layers and all the healing that you have to do. What other major surgery are you expected to not only recover from but care for a tiny baby?

I think you are both disrespectful and inconsiderate and I feel sorry for any of your friends or relatives that may have had caesareans as you consider them to have put in no effort and are undeserving of any appreciation. Wow.

If you are a woman I think you should be ashamed of yourself, no wonder so many women have such a sense of failure after a c section with people like you perpetuating this bullshit

Tbh I can understand why. A c-section causes trauma to the body etc, but it's not a process the mother actively takes part in. I had two pretty horrendous vaginal births. I have no idea if anyone congratulated me on how well I'd done - it is a pretty hazy memory for me, thank goodness.

Cross-posted. I've no doubt a c-section is traumatic and that recovery is really tough when looking after a new baby. I'm just not that surprised that people would be inclined to congratulate you on the birth of your baby and be very sympathetic and solicitous about how you are feeling and your recovery etc (as they would after any major surgery), rather than saying you did it great.

I've had both. Vb was by far easier and quick to recover. No intervention just some gas and air. Next day I was back to normal. My CS was major surgery and having to be on drugs and the first week of being sore.

But carrying a baby, giving birth to it (however you do it) and then nurturing it, does deserve acknowledgement!

Oh, hi, Iain.

Do you not think that a bloke with four adult children hanging around on a site to talk about vaginal deliveries, domestic abuse and feminism with women when his own children are in their twenties and his wife certainly hasn't been on here for at least a decade sounds just a tad creepy?

😀

I have experience of both tbh! Emergency section for dc1 and I was treated appallingly. Very traumatic. Dc2 we'd moved so I birthed (planned section due to breech) in a different hospital and the staff were amazing. Really supportive and full of praise. I got a massive (gentle) bollocking from my community midwife when pregnant for saying (before I knew how things would turn out) that I wanted to give birth 'properly'. She told me I'd already done that when I had dc1. I bloody love that woman, totally changed my outlook. I was able to free myself from the shame of failure I'd felt for years.

@PortalooSunset absolutely love this! This is what I was trying to get across is that all birth is birth and should get the same recognition, not that women who have sections end up with a feeling like they haven’t done it properly! That midwife sounds brill