Giving up seats in train (in Italy)

[Fiddlefree]

I'm on holiday in Tuscany. On a train to Florence. I can't believe the number of people who have their bags, coats, suitcases on seats whilst others are standing.

We are 4 people in our 60/70s. Asked someone to mover her coat so the eldest of us could sit down and met with a firm no. These are not allocated paid for seats.

And it's not because we're 'foreign' I do r think as an obviously incapacitated lady (with sticks) is standing g and not one person has offered their seat or moved a bag.

I've never seen this on trains in UK. Usually someone offers or if directly asked wouldn't refuse.

AIBU to feel so annoyed? I thought the Europeans were better than us.

AIBU to feel so annoyed? I thought the Europeans were better than us.

Why would you think that?

Youre probably being too polite and british. Just go and move their stuff and sit down, or tell them to move it as you sit down.

That is odd that everyone is covering seats. Don’t expect people to offer though, be direct. You met one rude person who said no, it doesn’t mean everyone will say no, keep asking.

I thought the Europeans were better than us.
I don’t know why you felt the need to add this though...

There was a thread the other day about exactly this happening on UK trains. My stance is "if it's busy, don't get annoyed when I want to sit down too."

I think just move their stuff and sit down. I'm absolutely sure that's what they would do if roles were reversed.

In some European people are much more respectful of others on public transport and giving up seats/making way for those with greater need is much more rigorously done than in the UK.

With London-centric public transport, its very hit and miss.

I've seen similar in the UK (which is also in Europe unless it has been moved recently). It's not typical in either place (UK or Italy) fortunately, but it happens. Arseholes are everywhere.

well if i was you and saw that elderly lady with sticks standing, i would say in a loud polite voice, this dear lady needs to sit down please can someone clear a space for her.
and repeat if necessary.
are there no train guards.
i've done the above on a packed tube train, where i could see a middle-aged woman about to pass out.
several people immediately sprung up, and she thanked me. but come to think of it, none of those seats were taken up with bags etc, just people with heads down reading, avoiding calls on their humanity. though to be fair, they looked a bit shame faced when i asked for her.
i too would expect europeans to be better than us.
so this is disappointing.
anyone else noticed such behaviour?
and other in/from countries?

I use trains in Europe very often. I’ve travelled on Italian trains many times. What you describe is not normal, no.

AIBU to feel so annoyed? I thought the Europeans were better than us.

Nothing to do with the Europeans. No one is ‘better’ than anyone, let’s stop that nonsense first of all.

You happen to be on a train with very rude people. Very rude people exist in every country, UK and Italy included.

Don’t ask. Tell them - ‘I’m going to sit here now’. They’ll move their bags and coats, or you’ll just be sat on them. Don’t be passive about it. I live on mainland Europe and I never ask - I say - ‘Sorry but that’s my seat / I would like to sit here’.

i too would expect europeans to be better than us.
so this is disappointing.
anyone else noticed such behaviour?
and other in/from countries?

Why would you have such high expectations about other nations but not of yourself? Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?

Yes, I’ve noticed that behaviour before. On Great Western Railway in England, on a Berlin bus, an Italian train and the Madrid underground.

To quote a PP, arseholes are everywhere. Your point was?

In some European people are much more respectful of others on public transport and giving up seats/making way for those with greater need is much more rigorously done than in the UK

I agree. In the UK you can often sit in a priority seat and nobody will ask for it. In Germany you can be fairly sure someone will get on and ask for it.

If people have blocked seats in any country and there's nowhere else to sit, I'll move the bags and sit down, assuming not heavy suitcases which are awkward to move, but trains overseas usually have decent luggage areas.

This weird self loathing some people have for their own country is so tedious. Which Europeans are you.talking about? You know the U.K. is in Europe yes?

Completely usual on trains in both England and Italy. People don't always like sitting next to strangers, it's become more apparent since the pandemic. My experience of the lovely Italians though is they are less likely to give a fuck about telling you they don't want you to sit there.

I was on a train to London recently and someone sat next to me. I was horrified! Didn't say anything of course but would have much rather they'd sat anywhere else but next to me.

It’s probably just guess culture versus ask culture. But I don’t believe for a minute that you haven’t always thought you‘re better than them.

i did hear of an elderly lady who needed a seat on the tube. all the seats including priority ones were taken by young fit looking people.
so she sat on the lap of one of the young men in the nearest priority seat.
and he said did nothing !

Lived in Italy for a huge part of my life and took a train daily for 20 years, I have seen seats given up numerous times. If you are quite clearly foreigners to them there might be language fear, I know so many Italians who are scared of speaking English or scared of not fully understanding a conversation. It's happened to me with Italians, but when I reply back to them in Italian they relax and say they didn't know what to say. However, there are also some very selfish people around too who just choose to ignore it and keep their seat. I've also seen the same ignoring behaviour in London. Italians on the whole are very polite, respectful people and are certainly brought up to respect elders. To add, although not an excuse, the pandemic fear is very much present here and people are wary of who they sit next to. I may be wrong but I didn't think you could sit next to each other on public transport though and there still has to be an empty seat next to you, maybe those are the seats they have their bags on.

“Europe” is a big place! Incidentally it does also include the UK, EU-membership or not doesn’t make a difference. It always astonishes me that some British people seem to regard “Europeans” as one big amorphous mass, presumably from Bulgaria via Portugal to Estonia?

With that little rant out of the way, I think Covid might play a role here. Italy has suffered severely in the early days of Covid and the images of entire villages being decimated in Northern Italy might still be vivid in people’s mind. I don’t know what the Covid messaging is like in Italy at the moment but not everyone has “moved on” quite to the extent that England has.

So people might be creating distance around themselves with bags. They might even think asking to sit right next to someone is rude.

Having said that, not offering someone with walking sticks a seat does come under arseholery.

So sit down on top of the coat. You don't need permission to take a non-allocated seat on public transport, asking is merely a polite formality.

I was once on a Birmingham to Euston train which was very busy, lots of passengers standing.
The guard/conductor made an announcement; ‘I will shortly be walking through the train. If you have cases/bags on seats, thats fine. I will be collecting the full fare though, for the seat. Have your card ready to pay. ‘
seats became available very quickly and most people got seated. The rest he put in First Class. 🙂

I work for TfL on their tube stations and in London not buying a ticket for your bag/suitcase/Staffordshire Bull Terrier and then plonking the same on a vacant seat is absolutely the norm unless you make a dramatic fuss.

The world over (in my opinion).

Think someone at Loose Women has been reading this thread. Talking about reserved seat rage right now.

Yeah, dunno.

I was in Rome a week or two ago, I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of mask-wearing I saw.

Not sure I can comment on Tuscan seat reservation customs.

Teachnically, it is part of the continent of Europe, but separated by the North Sea and so is an island.
And thanks to 52% of the voting population, we are no longer in 'Europe'

No "thanks" to 52% of those who did vote, and the apathetic who didn't bother, we are no longer in the EU. If you think 52% of the voting population voted for that you are deluded.