To expect to sit on an empty train seat?

[NellieTheElephant1]

Travelling on a busy train to London, lady wearing a mask sitting on a window seat with her bags next to her on the aisle seat. No other seats available nearby. Asked her politely 'excuse me please' indicating that I wanted to sit there. She mumbled 'sorry no I need to distance'. Surely if you're that worried about Covid don't travel on public transport at busy times?

Getting on a train when you have covid is kind of being an arsehole though, isn't it?

Isn’t this just the ‘living with it” everyone insists we have to do? If you don’t want to risk catching covid don’t go on trains. Just like those who are vulnerable are being told to do.

If you use the train a lot, or even just one long journey a year, and are eligible then it could save a lot of money by buying one. I think they are £30 and you save a third off train fares.
I think you can even get one through Tesco Clubcard for £10 worth of vouchers.

My DH has day surgery on Tuesday and you can’t drive after it so he has to take public transport back and forth.

When I went for surgery, they were very clear that the isolation includes not using public transport to get to the hospital.

Not at all and it's a request no one has the right to demand. Seats are for people, not bags. If you want private transport, either drive or get a cab where there's only one other person sitting away from you. Otherwise if you take public transport, expect members of the public to be around you.

When I lived in the UK and took a train to work every day, if someone put their bag on a seat I’d say “oh thank you for saving this seat for me, that’s very kind”. They were often then too embarrassed to leave the bag on the seat.

@Solmum1964

and what about the disabled people that don't get PIP?

Absolutely. And there's no NEED to go to the gym, the way some people might need to catch a train, for instance.

But one person's desire to protect themselves does not trump another person's right to use the seat they've paid for. If there are no seats available you have to suck it up, but otherwise, no, you're entitled to your seat.

You don’t need to be afraid on behalf of people who aren’t as worried as you. Honestly, people know that covid isn’t over - and we also know that it isn’t ever going to be ‘over’, and that the risk of catching it (again) is not worth the cost of continuing to restrict our lives. I need to get the train to work, I’m not going to gain anything by thinking “omg covid covid covid” for the whole journey rather than just reading a book.

It’s also not true that ‘Europe’ is keeping masks, nor that the European countries which are are seeing lower case rates as a result. We only dropped them last week where I live and we’ve had higher case rates than England for a while now, so…

She was being really selfish. Unfortunately there are plenty of them on trains which is why I generally have to avoid them or spend a lot of money for a first class ticket.
I'm not sure about all the comments that she should have bought two tickets though. How would that help? Also, not all disabled people are vulnerable to covid whereas some able-bodied people are.

YANBU! Can’t bear seat hoggers. Before Covid I asked a lady to move her (many) bags from the seats so I could sit next to her - I had an hour-long journey and it was a busy service. She looked me up and down and asked me where I was getting off, as if to judge whether it was worth her standing up to move her stuff! I told her and with lots of passive aggressive sighs and eye rolls and she moved it so I could sit down.

I did say if you are eligible. It doesn't appear to be just limited to those receiving PIP:

You are eligible for the Disabled Persons Railcard if you:
receive Personal Independence Payments (PIP)
receive Disability Living Allowance (DLA) at either:

the higher or lower rate for the mobility component, or
the higher or middle rate for the care component

have a visual impairment
have a hearing impairment
have epilepsy
receive Attendance Allowance or Severe Disablement Allowance
receive War Pensioner's Mobility Supplement
receive War or Service Disablement Pension for 80% or more disability
buy or lease a vehicle through the Motability scheme

and there are other railcards available that cover many other people - though not all available through Clubcard.

No one on a train has “paid for a seat”, your ticket entitles you to a journey between the departure and arrival stations printed on it and that is all. Unless, of course you have reserved a seat (free to do).

They make similar announcements about bags on seats on the Trans Pennine Express @TimBoothseyes when approaching Leeds from York because the train fills up in Leeds.

I think you ought to respect a simple request

hogging a seat with your bag and refusing to move it when asked is a pretty aggressive stance.

I think the person wanting to isolate should be the one to move and stand somewhere out of the way of everyone, instead of plonking themselves right in the middle.

it’s basic commonsense and very simple.

Thank you @SecretVictoria

Literally had no idea

She is entitled to a seat if there is an be available though. Which there was

@Solmum1964 It is pretty much limited to those who get PIP/DLA unless they they are hearing/vision problems or epilepsy though.

@Solmum1964

It's very limited. I have tried to engage in discussions with the issuers about it but they don't respond. Not every disabled person gets PIP, and many who should, don't. That's another thread altogether.

On busy trains I deliberately choose seats that people have put bags on.

Almost certainly she was just trying it on, in the hope that nobody would ask.
Too many people just don’t or won’t ask people to move their bags - God knows why. I see it on buses all the time - the person will either be, or pretend to be, so engrossed in their phone that they haven’t noticed people standing.

I have no problem with asking anyone - politely - to move their bags. I get the odd huff and eye roll, which I blithely ignore.

On a longer train journey IMO it’s an absolute no-no, though, especially when tickets are so bloody expensive. Full marks to the guard who announced that un-ticketed bags on seats would be taken off at the next station! 😂

I'm far less likely to get it from you by sitting next to you on a long train journey if both of us are masked.

What you have the power to do here is wear a good-quality mask to protect yourself. What you don’t have the power to do is expect everyone else around you to do that too. You can control what you do: you cannot expect other people to share your preferences, your worries, your personal beliefs about what reduces transmission by how much where, or your risk-benefit analysis.

Like I said earlier, we as a country really need to wean ourself off the idea that our fears are best dealt with by controlling other people.

If it was the only seat available you should have said ‘sorry, that rule isn’t applicable on a full train’ and insisted. As a long time commuter I rather relish getting dickheads to move their seated bags at rush hour.

She was being really selfish. Unfortunately there are plenty of them on trains which is why I generally have to avoid them or spend a lot of money for a first class ticket

@dianthus101 If you have ever travelled first class you would know it does not guarantee a seat all to yourself. Commuter trains have a single carriage (often occupied by employees of the railway as they get it free) and on longer journeys the seats can be single (just) or in pairs.

I'm actually shocked at the comments here from selfish people.

I am sure that the seat the OP 'chose' was not the only one free on the whole train.

She's chosen to be affronted.

Anyone with some understanding would have thought the women wanting to distance had a genuine reason, and moved on to find another seat.

Speaking from experience, my DP found train journeys very hard all through the pandemic when he was travelling for treatment. He wears a proper mask and distances himself.

It's not as simple as 'going by car' if you've had surgery and can't drive, or taking a taxi. Taxis are worse as you are in a confined space unable to move around and the driver may well be infectious.

If someone objected to my sitting next to them I'd assume they had a VERY GOOD REASON and find another seat.