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AIBU?

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Original poster

Architect Error - Anyone got any advice?

35 replies

marmite14 · 21/04/2022 20:29

Just started some renovations on our house, it's all internal work - few walls coming down to make an open plan kitchen diner. We commissioned an architect to provide a current floor plan and design layouts. She advised that one of the walls would need to be checked with a structural engineer but all others were plasterboard and easy to pull down. That was the extent of the work she did as it's not a huge job. We used a structural engineer to look at the wall she suggested and he provided details for the steel that is required. Roll forward to this week, most of the walls are down, kitchen has been ripped out and we have found that one of the wall isn't made of plasterboard and is supporting wall that requires a huge steel with an estimated cost £15K. This is going to blow the budget and there is no way around it.

Has anyone experienced issues with architects making error ? Does anyone have advise on whether I have any recourse with the architect?

OP posts:
CornishGem1975 · 21/04/2022 20:32

You can take legal action against them on the basis they have been negligent.

Fourmagpies · 21/04/2022 20:39

I don't think that is the responsibility of the architect unless they completed a full survey. Surely checking load bearing walls would be the structural engineers job?

workingmomlife · 21/04/2022 20:40

Why can't you just work around the wall in question? As soon as you stripped the plasterboard off it would have become obvious it was a block wall and therefore load bearing. Highly doubt the steel cost is £15k Someone is having you on over that unless it's holding up the entire rear of the house in which case only an idiot would have said it wasn't load bearing in the first place?

JelloFishy · 21/04/2022 20:40

Was there a survey done?

PinkPlantCase · 21/04/2022 20:46

Have you got in touch with them and informed them?

At the very least I’d expect them to work with you and a structural engineer very quickly to find a solution that minimises the impact of the error.

That should be your first course of action then reassess the situation. I’d be very surprised if it needs to cost as much as 15k.

Do you have anything in writing that they said about the walls?

hashbrownsandwich · 21/04/2022 20:51

My husband is an architect and he says it would be the structural engineer who would be deemed to be at fault, based purely on the basic info you have given here.

I would be VERY worried by anyone who couldn't tell the difference between a plasterboard wall and a brick wall, let alone a supporting brick wall 😬

Original poster
marmite14 · 21/04/2022 22:01

Thanks for your replies. The structural engineer was given all the plans, but he was only instructed to look at a separate wall based on the the advise of the architect, as she said this was the only load bearing wall. Does anyone know if this is standard practice or would an architect suggest all walls should be checked before plans are finalised?

@JelloFishy Do you mean by the architect or a surveyor? The architect prepared drawings of the existing floor plan noting all the current beams and where flooring was different heights etc. She didn't refer to it as a survey but it cost around £700 and was used for the kitchen design and getting building quotes.

The builder has quoted £15K for putting in the steel, as it's quite a lot of work. The other steel is is £8k.

OP posts:
TinySaltLick · 21/04/2022 22:11

Interestokg one - you could contact the Architects Registration Board which acts as an ombudsmen.

You absolutely should speak to an expert here, but it feels like you might have to take the hit on this. I'm not sure an incorrect assumption by the architect will be enough to make them liable for the costs - all sorts of things could be discovered during the build and ultimately that is the risk the consumer takes - is there any relavent working in a contract you have with them?

Doveyouknow · 21/04/2022 22:28

I think you need to check your engagement letter with the architect to see whether this advice was part of the advice / plans you commissioned. Also check whether the advice on the surveyor is written down. You will need to complain to the architect first if you want to go down that route and give them a chance to resolve the complaint.

SweetPetrichor · 21/04/2022 22:29

I wouldn’t have trusted the architect to make decisions about what is and isn’t load bearing - I’d have either got a survey done or given the structural engineer instruction to check which walls were plaster board and which were load bearing. They are far better placed to make that decision. I assume, by your post, that you asked the structural engineer to size up steel for the single wall the architect identified as needing removed…if so, I don’t think it’s on the engineer to have noticed the architect’s mistake. A lesson here would be to go to the engineer first. They know their stuff. I say this as a structural engineer. Architects can draw it up and make it pretty afterwards, but you want the engineer to be the one making decisions first.

BoredZelda · 21/04/2022 22:35

This was the structural engineer’s mistake. They had the plans and should have checked all walls being removed.

justforthisnow · 21/04/2022 22:41

This is absolutely the responsibility of the engineer. Architects can suggest what might be looked at in a survey but it's the engineers responsibility to do a full survey to ensure all aspects are covered. The most basic of all checks in an existing building is assessing what is and isnt a load bearing wall. It's the medical equivalant of taking blood pressure and pulse, the most basic of measures.

Gingernaut · 21/04/2022 22:53

Fourmagpies · 21/04/2022 20:39

I don't think that is the responsibility of the architect unless they completed a full survey. Surely checking load bearing walls would be the structural engineers job?

This

NewHouseNewMe · 21/04/2022 23:07

It would be the structural engineers responsibility but it doesn’t sound like you got the full calculations or drawings from him/her. There’s no way an engineer would only work on calcs for one wall in isolation. How did you pass building control (not planning) without full structural drawings?

Lunar27 · 21/04/2022 23:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Lunar27 · 21/04/2022 23:22

This reply has been withdrawn

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OatSprout · 21/04/2022 23:30

They are possibly both at fault.

The architect if she directed the surveyor to only look at certain walls from the plan of works and not check the whole, and possibly the surveyor if he knew other walls were being taken down and didn’t point out to you that they should also be inspected not assumed to be non-load bearing. I would have thought he’d have a duty of care to make sure you knew nothing should be assumed.

If the architect felt she was certain they didn’t need checking then the responsibility is her’s.

CorsicaDreaming · 21/04/2022 23:47

@workingmomlife

Why can't you just work around the wall in question? As soon as you stripped the plasterboard off it would have become obvious it was a block wall and therefore load bearing. Highly doubt the steel cost is £15k Someone is having you on over that unless it's holding up the entire rear of the house in which case only an idiot would have said it wasn't load bearing in the first place?
:.

I think it's likely it could cost that. Steels have gone up massively in price in last twelve months. It's also more technically involved if you need to deal with load bearing walls.

workingmomlife · 22/04/2022 05:31

@CorsicaDreaming

I work in construction and a steel for a domestic house definitely doesn't cost £15k unless her House is a mansion or it's holding up more than 2 floors above

Soontobe60 · 22/04/2022 06:28

The question you need to ask yourself is, had either the architect or structural engineer noted that the wall in question needed a steel right from the beginning, what would you have done? Would you have cancelled the building work entirely? Revisited the plans to keep the wall in place? Or found the extra costs?

Redcherries · 22/04/2022 06:46

Also in construction, 15k is a rather large sum for installing a steel. I’d be looking into that personally.

SolasAnla · 22/04/2022 07:18

workingmomlife · 22/04/2022 05:31

@CorsicaDreaming

I work in construction and a steel for a domestic house definitely doesn't cost £15k unless her House is a mansion or it's holding up more than 2 floors above

I expect that the builder is adding a large premium on the change of plans, if its kicking the agreed work schedule out by a few weeks.
If the architect and engineer got it wrong it' going to get messy.

NewHouseNewMe · 22/04/2022 07:29

On costs, it Is possible that the extra steel needs to have reinforced foundations and side steels which could be £15K all in.

custardbear · 22/04/2022 07:33

That price is huge, we did a almost total rebuild with 15 steels,
Some huge, and all together they weren't anything close to £15k, probably about £3k but that was about 3 years ago and costs have gone up ... but not that much!

Pegasushaswings · 22/04/2022 07:41

workingmomlife · 21/04/2022 20:40

Why can't you just work around the wall in question? As soon as you stripped the plasterboard off it would have become obvious it was a block wall and therefore load bearing. Highly doubt the steel cost is £15k Someone is having you on over that unless it's holding up the entire rear of the house in which case only an idiot would have said it wasn't load bearing in the first place?

I agree, it’s pretty obvious which walls are load bearing if you know what you are looking for. It sounds to me that the architect doesn’t have much practical knowledge and the structural surveyor would surely have known that the wall in question would be load bearing, even if they weren’t there to check that particular wall, as I would have expected a good builder to also know, you don’t have to knock down a whole wall to check it.