A nasty reference from an ex manager has ruined dream job

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Posting in AIBU for traffic

Here’s the situation. My 19 year old was juggling 2 jobs. His main job was full-time in a restaurant. He also took on a secondary bar job. He was always clear with the bar job that the restaurant was his main job and that he could only work on days he was off at the restaurant. It was agreed he’d let them know each week the days he wasn’t at the restaurant. They were fine with this.

However then the bar manager starts putting him on days where he’s said he can’t work, and insists he has to come in. He tried his absolute hardest not to let anybody down but it was impossible. This caused many nightmares at work, and he chose to prioritise his main job and handed his notice in at the bar. During his notice there was one shift that clashed with the restaurant shift. He let the manager know that he just couldn’t do it and that he was going to the restaurant instead, and told the bar manager he’d have to finish at the bar immediately. He was only there a month and did his job fine. It was also a job on a ‘casual’ basis without even a proper contract, and it was 0 hours. IMO it works both ways, if you won’t even offer proper hours or a contract you can’t expect the employee to commit and prioritise you when they have another contracted job.

He recently applied for a luxury hotel front desk agent job abroad, it was a brilliant opportunity with great pay, an amazing bonus scheme, training, accommodation, visa support, and career progression. They offered him the job. They wanted 2 employment references from 2 different jobs. As the bar and restaurant job are the only jobs he’s had, he had to list the bar down as one of the references. He thought that because he did the actual job well they’d be fine to just list a brief letter confirming he did indeed work there and performed his duties on the job. He approached them first to ask them to do the reference and they agreed. It never occurred to him that they’d do this to him.

The hotel has rescinded his job offer after speaking to the bar. The bar has told the hotel that he just buggered off without working notice, and so the hotel have decided he is unreliable. This is despite a glowing review from his other job. DS is absolutely devastated. He has tried explaining the situation to the hotel but they don’t want to know. The bar manager was well aware what a huge opportunity this was to DS, as when DS went to ask them for the reference he told them all about it. This one bloke in his 50s made a conscious decision to ruin what he knew was an amazing opportunity for a young lad that literally could have changed the course of his life. I find it unimaginably cruel. There literally wasn’t a contract at the bar job, he had no obligation to work notice for them. He does not deserve this. He truly is gutted, it was a job in his dream sector (he’d like to get into the hotel industry) in his dream country.

Is there anything he can do? With the other job being abroad I feel it makes going to any legal/tribunal thing more difficult.

So just to be clear DS offered 2 weeks notice to the bar as a favour (there was no obligation as they never offered him a contract), but they continued to demand he come in on days he was at his main job at the restaurant during this notice. He couldn’t risk losing his main job to please the manager at the casual job that he was leaving anyway, so he ended up not doing the notice for them.

There are laws around references now, it's why many companies refuse to say anymore than the person worked from x date to x date. It saves them from being sued for an unfair reference.

I don't think the new job being in another country matters. His old job was here, surely he can still do something about this unfair reference? I'd speak to a solicitor and see what they say.

In situations like this I would not have put the bar job down as it was just a month and there were problems with him not being able to do the job, I appreciate this was not his fault. Can he approach a teacher, head of year or someone similar from his sixth form/ college to write another reference and then speak to the new job and see if they would accept that instead?

Not that it helps for this situation but in future, he should omit the bar job from his experience and just say that he’s only had the one employer.

Oh, I wish I could help.

Would it be possible to have a solicitor contact the rat fink pub owner and insist he write another letter for your son to send to the hotel (although tbh they've probably filled that position by now) stating clearly that as your son was on a 0 hours contract and had made plain which days he was/wasn't available, there was no requirement for him to give notice.

The solicitor could possibly say that if the pub manager refuses to do this, your son will sue for defamation of character.

Just a thought, I've no legal knowledge and am also in Scotland and I know our law is very different to English law in certain respects.

I’d be going to the bar and asking them to contact the company to resolve the error
what a horrible man to do that

In all honesty there’s nothing you can do about it. Have you spoken to the bar manager about it? I’d find out all the facts first and give him a call to see why he’s done that. They won’t appreciate it, but they made their bed!

also you seem to have built this job abroad up massively. Just tell him to apply for some more, there are no shortage of hotel jobs abroad.

Acas seem to imply he could sue them for this as he’s suffered a loss (they give the example of offer withdrawn due to misleading reference)

www.acas.org.uk/providing-a-job-reference/if-you-get-a-bad-reference

turning down shifts on a 0 hours contract is not a reason to give someone a bad reference.

Sorry to hear your DS is going through this. I think a lot of things feel devastating at this age.

The mistake was putting the bar down as a reference when he'd only worked there for a month and left on bad terms.

Imo your DS should have said that he's only had one previous job and therefore could only provide one reference. And see if they were willing to proceed.

If they were insistent 2 different references were required from 2 different jobs then he wouldn't have got the job anyway.

Unfortunately I don't think there's anything he can do minus chalk it up to experience. He sounds very young and employable and I'm sure there will be other opportunities that come up. Just make sure he doesn't mention the bar work at all on his future CV or references.

This happens in hotel and catering and always has. They don't like you working for anyone else, especially another hospitality business. No matter what they tell you on recruitment about the hours they want, they will always go on to push for more, and if that coincides with your other job, there will be trouble. It's not far, they are often not honest on recruitment, and often they will hold a grudge in a case where you can't do the hours they want at very short notice.

It's not a good business to work in. I wouldn't advise anyone to go into it as it is insecure with terrible pay and conditions and always has been. It really is for people with no other options or for young people looking for some money. Yes, there are exceptions of-course.

I don't think he can do anything about this current situation.

Is there anything he can do?

My instincts say to set the shitty bar fucking on fire, but that’s probably not going to help anyone in the end 😂

Your poor boy, I really hope something can be sorted.

It’s not fair. I think I would encourage him to apply for more similar jobs and completely omit the bar from his work history. Can’t provide two work references if you haven’t had two jobs after all!

There are plenty of hotel jobs around in the country DS wants to go to but this one was particularly good. It’s a luxury hotel that’s well-known worldwide and the benefits are especially good. He’d have been given access to a great training scheme, and he’d get a ridiculous bonus after a few months. It just would have been great for him to work there.

You can't make factually untrue statements in a reference - like saying someone didn't work their notice period when they didn't have a notice period. But it would be an absurd decision to actually pursue this legally and really not worth the money and stress.

So he (not you - he's 19 and needs to handle this himself, with background support from you) could talk to someone senior at the bar and make noises about speaking to an employment lawyer, but if the empty threat didn't work that should be the end of the road.

I agree with MushroomHunter that your efforts would be better spent helping your son find other opportunities, and in making sure he's being realistic about things. He hasn't lost his opportunity of a dream job at 19; he really hasn't.

It’s also a shame as well because he knocked their socks off at interview and they were delighted with him.

I'm sure he’ll get something else but it’s just horrible that this particular job was ruined for him by one nasty little man with a grudge.

God that's awful.

You could try working around this on both ends.

First, who exactly gave the reference from the bar? Does your DS know someone more sympathetic at the bar, who would be willing to write a different reference?

Is the bar part of a chain? Even if you can't rectify the reference, I would try to make their life difficult by complaining to everyone I could think of.

Then on the other side, whoever at the hotel rejected your son will have a boss. Find out who that is and speak to them. And then if you have to, their boss. See if his current restaurant boss would be willing to call them as well.

Perhaps none of this will work, and definitely keep DS' expectations low about it, but it's a good chance to show him what to do in future if he has job crises.

Otherwise yes there are loads of hotel jobs abroad, I'm sure he will find another great one!

Ha you read my mind 😂

That’s really nasty OP, your poor DS was just trying to do the right thing. I don’t know what would be gained from legal action in this instance since the job will likely have been filled. It’s worth knowing for the future though to leave the bar work off his cv. I hope something good comes doing soon for him.

Sorry just saw about the interview. Is the person who interviewed him the same as the person who rejected him? If not, see if the interviewer will put in a good word.

HR wanted the references. I’m not sure if it’s them that have gone on to reject him.

It isn’t just the loss of the offer DS is upset about, he feels humiliated.

I'm guessing that the current price of petrol makes burning the bar down a non-starter. Otherwise, is it worth him lawyering-up? Obviously as an adult he needs to lead on this, you can only provide encouragement and advice.

turning down shifts on a 0 hours contract is not a reason to give someone a bad reference.
Quite, if companies want their staff to be flexible, it needs to be reflected in the pay. The combined efforts of Brexit and the pandemic have redressed the balance in the employee's favour, thank goodness.

It won’t help him this time but in future he shouldn’t mention the bar job. If you’ve only had one job, you’ve only had one job so he should just have told them this and only put the restaurant down.

I’m sorry your son has experienced this but try to reassure him he has nothing to feel humiliated for. The only thing he did ‘wrong’ was to put down this dickhead as a reference. In the immediate future he should use the good reference from his main job and an academic one.

Are you sure what the reference said? It's unusual ime for a potential employer to tell a candidate theccontent of a reference

It was a horrible, spiteful not to mention unfair thing to do. But he is 19, don’t catastrophise it, if he did that well at interview then he is good at interviews and he can do it again. There will be other jobs, he hasn’t missed a one off life opportunity.

He can take a learning from this experience, not to use the bar as a reference again and to be honest, not to use anyone as a reference when he didn’t leave on good terms (rightly or wrongly).

And for those saying omit the bar job in the UK for DBS checks you have to declare 5 years employment history and they check this against your HMRC history (unless this was cash in hand)