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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To feel a little unsure about teeth out for braces?

77 replies

KyieveMii · 20/04/2022 08:13

Firstly, I’m no expert so open to correction- it’s just a concern I have.

DS, 11, has my narrow jaw and palette. His teeth are crooked and his front two protrude. Orthodontics are needed to enable him to close his mouth easily/ keep teeth clean.

However the NHS orthodontist suggested removing 4 teeth. He already has a noticeabley small jaw. I worry than removing teeth and retracting the remaining ones will make it even worse cosmetically and possibly on a practical level. I see lovely wide American smiles, whereas his will curve in from his canines into a very narrow smile. Also his tongue space will be tiny.

I also worry about doing this now, at 11, when he’s late to puberty. His older brother and father developed much wider jaws at around age 15. Will teeth be gappy? Not match the jaw line? I’m missing lateral incisors so although we have the same jaw shape I can’t really compare how it looks.

my last worry is I lost two teeth, it doesn’t really matter because other teeth have almost filled the gap. If he loses teeth now then loses adult teeth will this be a disadvantage?

has anyone been through similar and can you tell me how it worked out? The orthodontist and her manner didn’t fill me with good faith, hence asking.

OP posts:

wonkygorgeous · 20/04/2022 23:57

I'd get a second opinion.

I had this same procedure 40+ years ago.
I now have bone loss due to big gaps where my teeth carried on moving forwards (extremely slowly) due to too many teeth being removed for the size of my jaw.

I originally had hospital orthodontal treatment so they were experienced. I wore braces for 4 years. They just took too many teeth out for the size of my jaw.

I'm now having to have very expensive dental work to preserve the integrity I of my teeth.

BashfulClam · 21/04/2022 01:22

I had 3 teeth out for my braces.2 at the top were to give space for my wisdom teeth and they should have done the same at the bottom ad my jaw was too small for them and I needed my lower wisdom teeth surgically removed years later. The orthodontist is a specialist and won’t remove teeth unnecessarily.

Selttan · 21/04/2022 01:33

My canines used to sit over my bottom lip - we tried braces twice. First time without removing teeth and it didn't work.

I had two molars removed for the second round and worked perfectly. I have a tiny gap now where the molars used to be but you can't see it when I'm smiling.

My parents were unsure about doing it but I'm glad they did. Before the braces we'd tried different plates as well. It was 9 years of orthodontic worn to get my perfect smile.

DiscoHouseplant · 21/04/2022 02:09

You are right to be concerned. Palate expansion is what you want for that wide American smile.
interceptive orthodontics (but he may be too old).

on the NHS you would be lucky to get this, ask for a private opinion and say you don’t want teeth extracted.
better to have wider palate as this is the floor of the sinus. Better for airway health, less TMJ problems in future, space for tongue, nicer profile aesthetically. Plus not lis

things have moved on, but unfortunately you probably will need to pay privately.

DiscoHouseplant · 21/04/2022 02:12

*plus not losing healthy adult teeth when you don’t have too.

I work at a Dentist and the children of the staff here all have had/will have this if they need braces.
We also refer our child patients early for this rather than extract perfectly healthy teeth.

artisanbread · 21/04/2022 02:43

I had braces as a teen and now have adult braces. I have a narrow jaw and my teeth never really straightened well with my first braces, hence having them again as an adult. This time I needed 4 teeth removing. However I see the same issue with my DD and I don't know how I feel about having them removed in a child. I would certainly at least ask of palate expanding is an option first.

knitnerd90 · 21/04/2022 02:47

Teeth out is the cheat's method. The better way to do it as they do in Europe and North America is two stage treatment using an appliance and then a fixed brace. The issue is that you only have a particular window for an appliance (eg palate expander but there are others) before the jaw has grown too much on its own. I had the teeth out treatment, oldest (in USA) had the palate expander and not only is her smile better, her alignment is better, she doesn't have crowding like I do and she has all her teeth. (And the original problem of massive overbite that showed with her mouth closed is gone!)

The NHS uses the extraction method because they push treatment late and want it cheap. If you can afford to, I would get another opinion, and do so ASAP before teeth out is the only option.

Do not do Smile Direct as a pp suggested, it's not a good option for children and really isn't a good method for this sort of problem.

BigWholeBean · 21/04/2022 03:12

I wouldn’t remove teeth. Orthodontics have come along way in the last 10 years. DD has a narrow mouth, before getting braces she had a palette expander for a few months. I recently started Invisalign, I have a small mouth too and nothing was removed. Get another opinion for sure

BigWholeBean · 21/04/2022 03:14

(just to add, I’m in the US. And paying privately for DD and myself. I chose Invisalign for myself because at 37 I really don’t want metal braces!)

catblanket · 21/04/2022 04:56

Nope definitely do not remove any adult teeth. The U.K. is literally the only country that still does this and it’s why so many adults have unbalanced jaws.

It happened to me as a kid and I had jaw surgery when I lived abroad to fix it. I was a member of a Facebook support group and from that, I learned that the U.K. way of doing this is extremely outdated and it doesn’t happen in any other western countries.

Do not let him have adult teeth removed.

lljkk · 21/04/2022 05:43

Orthodontist said when DS was about 10-11 that he definitely would need teeth removed. Dentist kept saying it was impossible, surgical procedure until he got older. By age 14 he had grown so much he didn't need them removed (!!). I am so glad dentist insisted it was impossible for so long.

DH & his mum had healthy teeth removed, I sometimes wonder how necessary that was. They had a growth pattern of being very short/small until they sprouted up to be taller than average.

lljkk · 21/04/2022 05:46

ps: I have 3 wisdom teeth (one was pulled when it got infected/decayed, when I was about 30). I've had so many puzzled reactions from dentists like wisdom teeth shouldn't be there. The teeth caused me just a few aches when they came in, no regrets no crowding, i just let them appear & stay.

CeeceeBloomingdale · 21/04/2022 05:52

RampantIvy · 20/04/2022 08:16

Please don't worry. I have a small jaw and only have 24 teeth. Most adults have 32. I had teeth out to wear a brace when I was 13. I then had my wisdom teeth out at 21 because my jaw was overcrowded.

When I first met my DH he said the first thing he noticed was how nice my teeth were.

Please listn to the dentist they know what they are doing.

Very similar here, 24 of my own and two false ones as I was born without some canines and wisdom teeth. The rest have been removed due to a small narrow jaw and I'm still a bit overcrowded. I had 5 removed in one sitting as a child then wisdom teeth as an adult. I didn't need a brace but the teeth realigned themselves so there were no gaps.

Original poster

KyieveMii · 21/04/2022 08:27

I also have old my wisdom teeth, they fit, with a small jaw and overcrowding at first.

OP posts:

MrsDamonSalvatore · 21/04/2022 09:11

My daughter didn’t have teeth out before her braces were put on, and when the braces came off she had a Hollywood smile….for a few years. Unfortunately as she got older the teeth started to crowd together again and overlap at the bottom. We weren’t given a choice, but in retrospect I think a few teeth out would have prevented overcrowding.

Jewel1968 · 21/04/2022 15:27

To those that say - listen to your orthodontist as they know best - how do you explain my situation where a second opinion contradicted the original proposal.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/04/2022 15:32

MrsDamonSalvatore · 21/04/2022 09:11

Did she continue to wear her retainers every night?

Elsiebear90 · 21/04/2022 15:38

I had 8 teeth removed for over crowding then a brace, have nice straight teeth, however, my jaw never grew and now my wisdom teeth are impacted and are causing me issues, god knows how bad it would have been if I had those 8 teeth still. I would trust your dentist, they know best.

mrkb · 21/04/2022 16:01

I had 8 teeth out at 11 and people comment even now (I'm 32) on how good my teeth look. Before then my teeth were overlapping, crooked, top teeth stuck out over my lip - honestly, I look like a different person in childhood photos. It wasn't pleasant having those teeth removed (and gave me a bit of long-term dentist aversion) but I'd do it again in a heartbeat if I had to. Extra bonus was that, because I had it all done so early, I had great teeth without braces by 15 whereas quite a few of my friends had braces 15-18 and were self conscious about them at a time when we were wanting to look good in front of boys etc. Shallow reason I know but I do remember feeling so confident in my smile at that age whereas I used to hide my mouth with my hands before then!

SE13Mummy · 21/04/2022 18:22

Back in the early 1990s I had a palate expander for a few months before wearing a bionator for a couple of years to promote lower jaw growth and bring it forward. Thirty years later and DC2's NHS orthodontist advised use of a twin block appliance which had a palate expander built in. She was just 11 when treatment started - all permanent teeth were through - and had the twin blocks for a year but there was no suggestion of removing teeth unless the brace didn't work (usually only an issue if the child doesn't wear it). She then had fixed braces fitted to sort out a couple of wonky teeth and to neaten up her expanded jaw. The transformation in less than two years has been amazing and she should be done by the time she's 13 (aside from wearing a retainer).

Madamecastafiore · 21/04/2022 18:35

Both my youngest see the same orthodontist, who does not remove teeth. He says it's the lazy way of doing it and your teeth are the scaffolding for your face and you'll look younger and better as you age if all your teeth are left in place. the eldest had orthotropics which is the American way of doing it. Widens jaw and then straightens teeth. Youngest will start hers in a year. Both have v v small jaws. The eldest has the most beautiful wide perfect smile and hopefully the youngest will have too.

Madamecastafiore · 21/04/2022 19:01

@MrsDamonSalvatore

Is this because she didn't wear her retainer though?

Antarcticant · 21/04/2022 19:06

I had this before being given braces as a child - and now I have horrible gappy teeth. I feel really annoyed that my parents let my healthy teeth be removed like that. They honestly looked better when they stuck out a bit. If I could go back in time and stop it being done to my 12 year old self, I would.

linerforlife · 21/04/2022 19:11

I had eight teeth removed for braces and then I've had 3 wisdom teeth out too. I have lovely straight teeth and my smile isn't "narrow" and you can't tell I had teeth removed. Because my teeth aren't crowded it's also really easy to floss and clean them.

safclass · 21/04/2022 19:15

Years ago I had a 'fixed' brace. I had 4 molars out (1 at each back left/right upper/lower) before my brace was put on.
However I was older (13/14) and I know from a friend's daughter sometimes it's done too early depending on dentist.
Not sure what techniques are now, definitely moved on, but a jaw can be overcrowded causing the teeth to be out of place.
I've had no issue until my wisdom teeth started coming through. Not enough room , in agony , had them removed too. 30+ yrs and I still get complimented at times.

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