powerful, potentially life-threatening dogs

[Bjarnum]

AIBU to think people who own such breeds which then go on to kill/maim a child / pet/adult should automatically be prosecuted? With so many smaller weaker breed available ( which may well be snappy but who would struggle to inflict the ghastly injuries seen lately) WHY would you pick a dog so heavy and powerful that if they turn they would be unstoppable? Another child in the paper today maimed by his "best friend".

@BemoreDerek

If it's the story I'm thinking of it was entirely avoidable, the family were flying toy helicopters round the living room while the dog slept. The supervising parent left the room and the dog obviously woke up and was freaked out by the helicopters, sadly the child face was the nearest thing to the dog and the inevitable happened. I have 'powerful' dogs and they are never alone with any DC let alone when there are things going on around them which may frighten or excite them, surely that's dog 101?

I too assume it was that story.

There's a reason why there's a saying of "let sleeping dogs lie". It's common for even very placid dogs to snap when startled awake, before they realise where they are, what is happening or who is around them.

Letting small children play around a sleeping dog, even if supervised, is asking for trouble.

I always love these threads..you always get some saying a chihuahua can do just as much damage as an XL Bully/Pitbull etc 😂😂😂😂😂😂

We have 2 Jack Russells, 3 Miniature Dachshunds, 2 Cockers, a Rottweiler and a bull/mastiff cross. I know which ones I'd rather be bitten by!!!!!!

Idiocy thinking there's as much risk with any breed. Absolute ignorant idiocy. Big strong powerful breeds should not be owned by just anyone.

Have just viewed the photo of that poor child.

I’m quite surprised, well shocked to read that the dog has been rehomed as the incident was classed as an accident.

I've got large breed, powerful dogs (although HPR types, not the "tough guy" image dogs that are often talked about on here in this context). We've had them since puppies, they're very well trained and soft as butter and DS has grown up with very clear guidance on how you do and do not treat dogs, but I'd still never leave them alone together. I've met more nasty terriers than large breeds, though, so I don't think banning big dogs is the answer. My PILs' Jack Russell has absolutely no qualms about going for someone's face if she's mildly displeased. She is NEVER in the same room as DS and is muzzled at all times when we are at their house.

Ultimately, I think there needs to be more regulation around dog ownership, a reduction in the ability for people to pass dogs around through FB/gumtree/any other source that doesn't carry out any proper checks on the dog or its future home and people need to be less complacent about their beloved pets and not allow their children to climb all over them/take part in activities around the dog that are likely to be scaring or confusing to it, no matter how trustworthy they think they are.

@yellowsuninthesky

I think a strict liability offence for dogs that injure other animals, whether other dogs, farm animals or humans would probably concentrate some owners' minds.

How would that work?

For instance, snappy Jack Russell has a crack at an otherwise lovely staffie. A scuffle ensues. Staffie bites Jack Russell - bad enough to need a few stitches but not badly enough to maim. Staffie is uninjured. If I were the Jack Russell's owner I'd take the view that my dog deserved what it got and I wouldn't dream of asking the staffie owner to pay. Your proposal would have the staffie owner liable.

Likewise, child walks up to dog and kicks it (happened to a relative's dog years ago; the dog was never the same again). Dog retaliates in kind, leaves some puncture marks and draws a bit of blood. Frankly the child deserves to be bitten in those circumstances, and the dog owner shouldn't be held liable.

Context is everything.

@Maydaysoonenough

A lady was killed by a pack of dachshunds.. Imo it is all about circumstances and owners than the breed... Recent deaths were ddogs that has recently been acquired from unknown sources and thrown into a new life with dc in it. Is the ddog really responsible for that?

They weren't entirely dachshund: they was veery obviously a sizeable % - at least 50% - of something else. And some of the dogs involved don't look like dachshunds at all.

Post-mortem photo of the dogs here:
blog.dogsbite.org/2018/05/dog-bite-fatality-ardmore-woman-killed-by-dogs.html

I agree with you OP

A Yorkie or sausage dog or westie, etc might yap (although I've had several and none where yappy) but I know it they attached someone I could wrestle them /kick them off.

That being said all dogs can cause damage with teeth and claws but obviously smaller dogs cause less damage and are easier to overpower.

Not popular but I believe big dogs should be reserved for over 16s and if you have a big dog then have children the dog should be rehomed.

It’s sickening. And this type of attack can easily happen while the parent or responsible adult is in the room so it’s no good saying ‘I don’t leave the dog alone with the child’.

Yabu . As I've said on other posts the problems start at the other end of the lead.

I've not seen a dog attack from a decent home/owners

I cannot believe that the dog in that recent attack is not being PTS. Unbelievable. There are more than enough dogs in the world, we don't need dogs like that in society full stop. 😡

@TempName01

It’s sickening. And this type of attack can easily happen while the parent or responsible adult is in the room so it’s no good saying ‘I don’t leave the dog alone with the child’.

Indeed. But reading the article about the child badly bitten by the family pet when he and siblings were flying toy helicopters indoors, I wonder how many kids and how many helicopters - because the family has 8 children. Parents need to exercise close supervision in such instances.

It's not always down to size though.

Littler dogs can often be more snappy and could still kill or seriously maim if they bit into a main artery. A little baby was killed by a Jack Russell about 10 years ago. He was only about a week old. Imagine how haunted these families are. It doesn't help you saying "people should be prosecuted"
Like when a child hits another child it's hardly the parents fault is it. Therefore when a dog attacks it's not the owners fault. Unless of course the owner was telling the dog to "fetch"

I also remember reading an article about a women who was minding her mums dog He was as daft as brush (as they say)and one day for no reason he just turned and had her terrified trapped in the bathroom.

The helicopter dog was put down.

“'The ownership of the dog was transferred to police. Following a thorough assessment it was established the dog could never be rehomed due to the violent act and they were humanely destroyed.'”

The dog was PTS. It was taken away, ASSESSED for rehoming and judged unsafe and put down.

@Nidan2Sandan

Are you that gullible to think a licence would solve the issue?

All it would is penalise the responsible owners . All the people that want them for the wrong reasons wouldnt bother

@Maydaysoonenough

A lady was killed by a pack of dachshunds.. Imo it is all about circumstances and owners than the breed... Recent deaths were ddogs that has recently been acquired from unknown sources and thrown into a new life with dc in it. Is the ddog really responsible for that?

Yes a "pack" not 1. Also, they were 6 Dachshund-mixes(they were bigger than pure bred Dachshunds) and a Border Collie

@Agrudge

Yabu . As I've said on other posts the problems start at the other end of the lead.

I've not seen a dog attack from a decent home/owners

There's a lot of factors that affect a dog's personality and behaviour, including

• parents temperament (like humans, some dogs are just have atypical personalities, which they can pass on)
• breed - for instance dachshunds are often a bit nervous, collies love to herd things and can be a bit neurotic, terriers will chase small furry things
• experiences in utero - for instance, was mum stressed?
• experiences in the first 8 weeks of life before going to new homes - a puppy raised in a filthy dark shed isn't going to have such a good start as one reared in a family home

Plus, for rescue dogs, there's the impact of the experiences they had in their first home. The first 16 weeks of life are really critical for socialisation, and you can never get that time back. Lots of rehomed dogs come from homes where they meant well but inadvertently didn't meet all their dogs needs.

Please remember that the person holding the lead isn't solely responsible for a dog's temperament. There's plenty of respectable, decent people doing their absolute best with a dog that was poorly bred and had some substandard experiences in their early life.

I choose to judge dog owners on what they're doing for their dog (training methods, adequate exercise, keeping them on a lead if necessary) not what their dog is doing at that moment in time. Much like children some dogs have additional needs, and the owners really are doing all they can.

Breed based legislation just doesn't work.

Because there will always be a newly fashionabje 'hard' breed/cross, and any larger dog can inflict life-changing injuries, and even small ones can do extensive damage.

The problem is white shitty owners who have under socialised socialised and poorly supervised dogs. It doesn't matter what breed they own, because the problem starts with the human

A (proper) Staffy weighs no more than about 35 lbs - a Labrador goes up to 80lbs. So if you ban by size/power, then Labs would be gone long before Staffies. But you don't mean that do you? You are wishing for a solution that doesn't exist - something that is based on something measureable, rather than the real problem of shitty owners

Like when a child hits another child it's hardly the parents fault is it

It would be if the child had been raised to be aggressive, acts of aggression praised, training to bite hit strongkymincluded in daily activities etc.

I agree with pp that there are many components to temperament and behaviour, but good owners keep their dogs, and the people they know are interacting with them, safe and happy (phrased like that because you still do get twerps who encourage DC to 'go and pat the doggie' without checking with the human first)

I work with dogs professionally and the majority of dogs that I see that have bitten people are breeds that you probably wouldn't even blink twice at.

The issue is a huge lack of education amongst people about dog behaviour, dog communication, the right environments for different dog breeds & personalities. There is also a lack of education amongst other dog professionals, because the industry is not regulated, so half of the trainers out there don't have qualifications or any up to date understanding. They then pass this misguided understanding to others.

However, if people have a big powerful breed, they do have to be able to manage them. Even a friendly, large dog, has the potential to injure somebody badly if they run over to them and knock them down. This does involve an amount of self-acceptance (e.g. I am in my 80s and may not be able to hang on to an enthusiastic 40kg dog).

Agree OP. Unfortunately there continue to be many "Staffy/Rottweiler the nanny dogs" fans on mumsnet and there is no reasoning with them. I love dogs, but chose a toy companion breed because I wanted a friendly family dog and one who can't overpower an adult

@GooglyEyeballs

Even small dogs have capacity to tear your throat out if they felt like it. It's not just big dogs.

True, and not a particularly welcome thought, either. If an animal has the potential to seriously injure or even kill you, why would you keep one in the house? Especially when there are children in the family. Tragedy after tragedy, and still people never learn.

Also, I'm a big believer that people shouldn't be able to just go out and get a dog. I haven't seen the article you've mentioned but from rtft it looks like a dog had been in the home a week and a toddler bothered it whilst it was sleeping.

1. A dog that is that new to the home is going to be stressed
2. The parents shouldn't let children approach a sleeping dog
3. They could have not known this dog well at that point and the dog and child should not have access to each other even if supervised

Why do people let their children hassle sleeping dogs, crawl up to them whilst they're eating, hug them, climb on them, hit the dog, etc?

I can't imagine what the family are going through and the pain they're experiencing but questions need to be asked about what was going on between child and dog, and also where they got the dog from.

True, and not a particularly welcome thought, either. If an animal has the potential to seriously injure or even kill you, why would you keep one in the house? Especially when there are children in the family. Tragedy after tragedy, and still people never learn.

As a woman the person most likely to kill me is my male partner - and yet still I keep letting him into the house.

We all take calculated risks in life.