To decline my school place?

[LG123]

I'm so cross, just want to yell at admissions (I won't).

My daughter got offered a place outside of catchment as my catchment school os oversubscribed. They wouldn't have to provide transport because she's under compulsory school age so my tiny 4 year old would be expected to walk 2 miles each way everyday.

Bet all the ones that drive got their place at a school round the corner.

AIBU to tell them to jog the fuck on?

And the guidance was adapted from one made in a Kent LA due to their high rate of (clearly adult) refugees.

@Barkingmadhouse

Imagine being the child who is a year older than everyone else in their class. Yes it won't mean much to them at 3/4/5 but by the time they are y6 and secondary school age the other children will understand that your child is the 'odd one out'. I know the 2 in my old school who were started a year later were forever bullied for it. I would not put my child through this because I don't want to travel each day. For your child to be as described you either need her assessed for additional needs or to accept she is no longer a baby and needs to grow up - a 3yr old without additional needs should be toilet trained etc. Yes the school may need to adapt to how they teach your daughter things etc but they will be capable of doing so - yours will not be the first or last summer child they have, nor will they be the most able or least able. They will be used to handling this, and if they aren't, it's the wrong school for your daughter, regardless of location or convenience for you.

schools have been dealing with Reception children of different 'abilities' for quite some time! It's not always the summer born ones that struggle (although it can be that the younger boys find it harder than girls) and any good Reception class teacher will be very used to continual informal assessment of their children and thinking of things to support their development/next steps-far more than a nursery will. A year is a long time for a small child and they change very quickly. If they're lucky they'll end up in a school that does Reception style learning for more than just the first year of school. I chose my daughter's school on the basis of where I thought she'd fit best and if it hadn't suited her then I would have considered moving her elsewhere! Also you are quite right, unless there's a medical reason why the child is not toilet trained at 3/4 the parents need to take responsibility and TEACH their child! It's become very much a thing to say 'they're not ready' just because the parents don't want the hassle of training them and dealing with toileting accidents or the inconvenience of having to find a toilet in a hurry when they're out!

You've clearly already made your mind up, but for what it's worth as a parent Ruth a child educated out of year.

The issue with Sixth form funding is that this is done by date of birth, not school year. Ordinarily you're entitled to three years' funding which allows an additional year to resit/change subjects. If the child is deferred a year you only get two years' funding.

Our LA were incredibly clear on that when we deferred DS and we had to sign acceptance of this and that if he needs a third year in the sixth form we have to fund it. We were told that not all secondaries (particularly but not limited to academies) will agree to an out of year admission.

We were also told in writing that out of year group sport isn't guarantee.

That said, we still deferred him and it's now written into his EHCP.

Hi OP I had to do this, we used a stroller and it was hard going , but child was bored at playschool, and we lots of nature walking to school and first to have conkers every year 😁

I don’t get it

Op you seem very well versed in the delaying process

And yet you applied for one school.

An oversubscribed school that was out of your catchment area.

[quote LG123]@Whenyougonnalearn sorry I missed your post, the other mother is for this round.[/quote]
Yes

I was asking to see whether you’d looked in to the publicly available data from previous years to determine the distance of the last child admitted

Then you’d have known you probably had bugger al chance of being accepted out of catchment by a well regarded oversubscribed school

I approached the school admissions project like a science project. Others it seem cross their fingers, apply for any and then get pissy that their child isn’t accepted at a school they had no chance of ever getting in to

@OrangeBlossom28

You do realise she will enter Yr1 and have missed out on her EY provision.

This is not true we deferred last year and DS will be starting reception September this year.

@LG123

People really have no idea about the summer born legislation and delayed entry to reception.

Quincy, clearly just doesn't like the idea.

To be fair, YOU “really” had “no idea” about the admissions criteria for tour first choice school Nor did you have any idea about the potential implications of not getting your first choice school

@LG123
I hope you've checked your county's policy on deferred entry. My county says that there's no guarantee they'll accept the request and that requests for deferred entry should have been in by the end of March-and that you'll need to apply again next year with no guarantee of a place where you want-although they will allocate you a place.
It might be a good idea for you to spend some time looking at schools in your area and deciding which would suit your child the best as well as your chances of getting a place next year so that you aren't disappointed next year!

@Whenyougonnalearn

So many people get into the position where they haven't done their research and put down the school they want and no others- then are surprised/angry when they don't get what they want!
Where I am, the most local school only takes 15 children, the next most local is Catholic, there's another one that takes 45 but is usually full of children nearer that side of town than this-it all gets very complicated! When my daughter started school there were 4 children all of the same age living up this end of the road, all of them went to different schools and none of them the one closest!
I made the mistake of not ticking the 'church' box on the school we wanted-my neighbour opposite got a place but I didn't, we got allocated the small school that I didn't think I had a chance of getting into-it was my 2nd preference. My other neighbour wanted the one we got- their first preference, but they got allocated their 2nd preference and the other neighbour went for a school that was nearer her parents so that they could help with before/after school care!
The school I was working at at the time sometimes had children from here, I think I put that as a 3rd preference as I didn't really want her with me, and in the end I found a different school that had places and before/after school care and sent her there!
Another parent just down the road made the mistake of just putting down the one school she liked- didn't get in, got allocated an 'unpopular' school, was cross about that and ended up driving to one 8 miles away. She was lucky that year because usually it's full with children much closer, and then she sent the 2 siblings there- taking spaces that may have gone to some poor child that was much closer!
Applying for school places isn't as straight forward as some people think!

Declining a primary place puts you at no advantage to accepting a place.
The only difference is you don't have a place.

* Applying for school places isn't as straight forward as some people think!*

We scrutinised 5 years of data showing distance of last child admitted!
We contacted the school to ask for sibling data
It saw it as too important to leave to chance

For secondary school for my daughter we attended church for 2 years!

[quote LG123]@Unsureaboutit9 I have declined the place and withdrawn the application for a school place this year. I don't want it, I don't need it.[/quote]
Not sure why you are so angry at the local authority then really if you didn’t want the place anyway. It seems hasty really, because by the sound of it if you’d have been offered a place at the school in your catchment you’d have let her start school as normal, or at least taken longer to think about it. But it’s done now, fingers crossed she manages to get a place in the closer school next year.

@Quincythequince - genuine question, if a 6th form cannot legally have adult students wandering around a school with minors... why are there so many 18-year-old 6th form students? 18 is the age of legal majority these days, so technically they're adults in a school with minors. Surely?

I'm an autumn "baby", so when I was in Yr 13, I was 18 (and actually got married, too, whilst still "at school"). Only difference was that the teachers had to figure out how to communicate with me, as opposed to my parents - because legally, I was an adult!

My summer born oldest was 19 and at the local college - and we simply had to pay for her to do the extra year (she made the wrong choice in Yr12 and to complete her 'A'-level courses - havng 3 AS' from Yr12 - because she was over 18, they wanted payment, quite rightly). Okay, things might have changed over the last 8 years or so, but I don't understand how you're saying that 19 is an adult... but 18 isn't?

As I said, genuine curiosity. If only in part because my youngest will also be 19 when he finishes Yr13... and all of our local schools/colleges are academy led round here.

@Quincythequince

There’s loads of gap students at my children’s private school? All 18

I’m talking about sixth forms in secondary schools (not college) settings contrary13

There are specific legal definitions which cover this. I’ve explained in a few posts above if you want to do a search by name, and if you Google it, information will come up. Rising 18 and 18, for educational purposes is very different to a 19 year old who has outstayed his/her time in our education system. They can let you stay on - they don’t have to.

Having an adult pupil (19 or older in school) as can legally be challenged from a safeguarding point of my view, at the very least. A 19 year old man has no business playing rugby or any other sports on a senior team with potentially just turned 17 year old children. An unvetted 19 year old should not be able to freely walk around where there are potentially 11 year old girls.

And yes clearly a child of any age can attack a smaller child, but it’s down to legal definitions of as adulthood in a setting where there are vulnerable minors (a 19 year old is not considered a vulnerable minor, and 18 year old in school is!)

This isn’t true in college - where your daughter was because of the type of setting it is.

oversubscribed, good academies try to avoid any challenge down the road (there are many that crop up) and so all things considered, age would be taken into consideration. It doesn’t mean it always is.

In schools (not college, where you say your daughter was) the presence of a legal adult in the premises can, and has been challenged. And I know cases where age was a factor and pupils weren’t admitted. It’s not against the law, or any specific rules to do this.

It’s not the same for colleges because of the ages of the pupils and the type of educational setting you’re in.

Where will your 19 year old son be in year 13?
None of what I have said can happen, will necessarily happen btw. But bear it in mind and several other posters have said the same thing, and that they have also been told this as parents of out of year children.

And out of curiosity, why do you have two out of year children? That’s unusual.

I have no comment on the private school system and not sure the same rules apply.

But should legally have the same duty of care to minors.

@Quincythequince

I’m talking about sixth forms in secondary schools (not college) settings contrary13

There are specific legal definitions which cover this. I’ve explained in a few posts above if you want to do a search by name, and if you Google it, information will come up. Rising 18 and 18, for educational purposes is very different to a 19 year old who has outstayed his/her time in our education system. They can let you stay on - they don’t have to.

Having an adult pupil (19 or older in school) as can legally be challenged from a safeguarding point of my view, at the very least. A 19 year old man has no business playing rugby or any other sports on a senior team with potentially just turned 17 year old children. An unvetted 19 year old should not be able to freely walk around where there are potentially 11 year old girls.

And yes clearly a child of any age can attack a smaller child, but it’s down to legal definitions of as adulthood in a setting where there are vulnerable minors (a 19 year old is not considered a vulnerable minor, and 18 year old in school is!)

This isn’t true in college - where your daughter was because of the type of setting it is.

oversubscribed, good academies try to avoid any challenge down the road (there are many that crop up) and so all things considered, age would be taken into consideration. It doesn’t mean it always is.

In schools (not college, where you say your daughter was) the presence of a legal adult in the premises can, and has been challenged. And I know cases where age was a factor and pupils weren’t admitted. It’s not against the law, or any specific rules to do this.

It’s not the same for colleges because of the ages of the pupils and the type of educational setting you’re in.

Where will your 19 year old son be in year 13?
None of what I have said can happen, will necessarily happen btw. But bear it in mind and several other posters have said the same thing, and that they have also been told this as parents of out of year children.

And out of curiosity, why do you have two out of year children? That’s unusual.

I was in an attached-to-school 6th-form college. As a married, adult woman. At 18. The legal age of majority in the UK. Not my daughter. She was at college, and we paid for her to do the extra year as a 19-year-old.

As for why I have two out of year children in college... (a) how rude do you actually need to be, especially when I was asking a genuine question as to why 18 isn't considered an adult but 19 is re: schooling/education - but (b) my son is learning a trade and it's a 3 year course. He has the academic "smarts" to do 'A'-levels/a degree but chose to learn how to build houses, instead...

My daughter, the summer-born baby, was deferred for a year (and actually ended up in a far better school as it happens) and it had absolutely no bearing on her education. In Yr12, she simply ended up doing subjects which she wasn't suited to - so did an extra year (paid for) as an adult around 16-year-olds... so technically an adult around minors.

My question still stands... why do schools view 19 as the cut-off point, and not 18 when the pupil/student legally becomes an adult?

[quote LG123]@MargosKaftan I think I will delay until next year now. Decline the place and move on.[/quote]
Declining doesn’t mean she will be given a place in the other school though.

For next year I mean.

How is it rude to ask about information you freely offered? 🤨

What’s so rude about that?

It could be because you had poor choice schools nearby etc and asked to defer and you were mentioning this because of the content of the thread.

Nothing rude about that at all.

And you don’t of course have to tell anyone anything, but it’s hardly a personal question in light of what you’ve provided.

My question still stands... why do schools view 19 as the cut-off point, and not 18 when the pupil/student legally becomes an adult

I have now repeatedly, many many times answered this. Given definitions, reasons, examples etc

I will now leave you to do your own search after saying one final time - it is not how it is in all schools all the time, and can be assessed on a case by case basis!

I actually don’t know what other answers I can provide here.

Provision of education via the state up until 19, doesn’t mean they can attend every learning setting that out there until they’re 19.

Check with the DfE and individual
Institutes if you want more info, I did make the rules and I’m not invested in them either.

didn’t make the rules