Conviction

[Malibooo]

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting. I will try and summarise as clearly as I can. I would value your advice.
I left home at 16. I slept in bus stops, empty flats and on people's couches. Some of these people weren't very nice to me.

I eventually got a flat of my own. Again, I was vulnerable to certain people. One night I burnt some letters and photos in my flat. (1985 I was 18) Causing some damage. I don't know what the police gleaned from the people around me but they did not want to prosecute. However, the CPS decided to prosecute. I was given two years probation.

I moved on. When I was 21 my husband died. I was 7 months pregnant. It was a very difficult time.

I remarried and was a victim of domestic abuse. I got divorced and then married my current husband. We have been together for 27 years. We have five children and 13cgrandchildren.

When I was 40 I went to university. Over the years I secured two degrees and a PGCE.
During this period of 24cyears. I worked in 2 schools successfully. Both schools knew of my conviction as did university as I had to explain the circumstances of conviction in front of a panel.

I was offered a job last year at my old school. I had worked there for 11 years. Three of those years with the current head. I only left to complete my PGCE (Biology) in 2018. I also did one of my placements there. I was so happy to be offered the job as a Science teacher.

I took my DBS and identification documents to the school. They were happy to see me. The head was isolating so I didn't get a chance to see him. The next day I received an email to inform me that the job was not going ahead. Too cut a long story short, he said he did not know about my conviction and would feel 'uncomfortable' employing me.
I was devastated. I am 56. I had finally come to terms with my past and had worked really hard. I very stupidly let this affect me and have been depressed and anxious. I barely leave the house. and have lost a lot of weight. His response made me feel so ashamed.
Should I be punished for the rest of my life?

There is a lot more to this in regards to how I was treated during my teenage years. I can't tell you how proud I was at the changes I made and in all I had achieved. I battled dyslexia and my own demons to make a success of my life. I now feel rubbish.
I don't want sympathy. I'm just curious, as to what other people think. Should I continue to have consequences for something that happened 36 years ago?

I have sympathy with the OP; it sounds like she has very successfully turned her life around and I hope she is able to find a teaching position.

Equally, I really disagree with the posts labelling the head an 'arsehole' 'dickhead' etc. Heading up a school is a damn hard enough job as it is, god knows it's not a job I envy, and it's understandable that on an individual basis, knowing their school, parent body etc, they may decide it's not right to take on someone with a serious conviction (which arson is) as a teacher. As a PP said, imagine the field day if the daily Mail or similar got hold of this information, or if some parents found out. It's not reasonable to expect every employer to be prepared to take that risk.

I know with the local lad I mentioned, his parents were gutted about the potential impact on his future. He's a very normal nice lad and from a nice family and he just did something stupid, setting fire to a few rubbish objects as a bit of a 'laugh.' He's now got a serious conviction but it's understandable in that if the fire hadn't been quickly put out, if it has spread and someone had been injured or worse, everyone would be baying for his blood.

So all in all I wish the best OP and I hope you're successful in getting a teaching job; this isn't the end of the world, just chalk it up to experience and keep applying

Hi... Although I had worked at this particular school for 11 years I had only worked with the current head for 3 years. The previous head employed me. I had a meeting with her regarding the conviction.
When I did my PGCE I had a panel meeting with 7 of the university staff to explain my conviction. I have no problem with doing this as the pupils safety is a priority and of course they have to ask. However, this head won't even let me explain. I had a very good working relationship with him before all of this.

It may be worth having a look here www.gov.uk/government/publications/dbs-filtering-guidance/dbs-filtering-guide to see if your conviction could be filtered in which case you may not need to declare it even for an enhanced DBS. When you apply for jobs are you writing a little disclosure letter emphasising the time past since the offence, situation then and situation now? Really sorry this has happened to you.

@Realitea

I thought after a certain amount of time it no longer showed on your DBS?

There are certain things that will always show up on enhanced DBS records

There are certain things that will always show up on enhanced DBS records

There are also some jobs which are exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act which means you will always be required to declare any conviction, no matter how long ago.

Wow, what you've achieved in life is absolutely amazing. Well done. You also have got yourself a good education and prospects all on your own despite the discrimination you have faced because of a silly mistake.

Absolutely commendable and brilliant. So impressive.

I'm not sure what remedy you can employ except to keep applying and keep being honest? Do you put a letter alongside your applications explaining your conviction? This is what's advised by penal reform charities and those which help those with convictions secure work.

What a fantastic model you are for your children. And what a survivor you are.

Of course you shouldn't be "double punished".

I'm so sorry. I also have a crap childhood that left me with low chances in life and punished for life frankly for being an unwanted abused kid stupid enough to do what I was told and take a conviction for my legal guardian. The past is a foreign country, but some of us are forced to have a foot chained to it.
Please remember there are so many women of that era in similar situations and every so often one of them gets smacked down by it. Today it's you, but it won't always be.

Probably not a route you want to go down, but if he employed you happily enough before, isn't there a question of lack of 'due diligence' somewhere in all this? Is that what's bothering him?

You've done incredibly well to turn your life around so well, and don't need to be ashamed. Your feelings are something about internalized shame but you probably know all that.
Please hold your head high, this is a blip in your adult career, not a cul de sac.
This headmaster has clearly used it to not employ you for whatever reason. But the person who is going to punish you for your past, is yourself if you allow yourself to. Please don't.

Take a deep breathe and move forward. I don't know how exactly you market it, but your lived experiences would make you an excellent form teacher and far better at pastoral care than the majority of 23 to 25 year olds with their freshly printed PGCE's.

Hi... Thank you for your reply. I always declare the conviction. I had been at that particular school for about 11 years. I had worked with the current head for the last three years of my employment there. I only left there in 2018 to do my PGCE..
I absolutely agree that they have to know about convictions as children's safety is the most important t thing. However, he said I was employed by the previous head and he knew nothing about my conviction.

I did confirm my conviction with his PA as the HT was isolating when I took my documents to the school. Unfortunately, he won't give me a chance to explain and that's his right.

the head is not a good person. Who is he to judge

Youve done amazingly well. Most schools would be proud to have you

You sound level headed and pragmatic about it OP, so I would chalk this one up to experience and keep applying. A job offer for a teacher is always subject to the DBS check so the head has done nothing wrong in making the verbal offer and then reconsidering once he became aware of the detail of the DBS. AFAIK a copy of the DBS isn't retained in a school- the single central register needs to be ticked to show it's been seen but it seems that this was by a previous head and therefore it's quite plausible that the current head didn't know there was a conviction on it; simply that the previous head who employed you in another role had still accepted it.

My only other suggestion is that you might seek advice from your PGCE course leader. The fact you had to go before a big panel and explain your conviction to get on the PGCE course shows they knew this was a significant issue. They were happy to take you on the course, so they may be able to give you more specialised advice about how to play this going forward. If they had thought you'd never get a teaching job they wouldn't have trained you, so stay positive, something will come up.

Hi.. Thank you for your reply. The HT previous to the current one knew. I worked with the current HT for three years. I assumed he would have been told and I'm certain we all had another check whilst he was there. I might be wrong though.
I had a very good working relationship with him and was completely floored by his attitude. Of course he had every right to say no. But, he didn't even let me explain.

I think just keep applying for jobs science teachers are in demand and if you are up front and honest (I know you had previously with a different HT) you will find a school that are happy to employ you.

I don’t think there is a way to change the decision of the HT and would you even want to work there now? I think you would be an inspiration to children after everything you have overcome and any school would be lucky to employ you so try not to let this get you down!

Did you declare it when asked on the application form and again when asked in the interview?

Having a conviction is not a dealbreaker but not declaring it is- they had no option but not to proceed. If you declared then they could risk assess,

You Uni should have raised this when they DBS checked you and talked you through the options and given advice.

@IDontHaveAnOutingHobby

Did you declare it when asked on the application form and again when asked in the interview?

Having a conviction is not a dealbreaker but not declaring it is- they had no option but not to proceed. If you declared then they could risk assess,

You Uni should have raised this when they DBS checked you and talked you through the options and given advice.

Ignore - just seen that you did declare and uni did advise you

That is terrible. It is a dreadful decision for that Head to have made. A minor conviction, many years ago , when you were young and vulnerable. Burning photos and it caused some damage-it sounds so silly that you were even prosecuted. You could have appealed this I am sure, to the Chair of Governors. I have appointed many staff in schools- a number have things that come up on enhanced DBS and Heads can use their discretion and common sense when people are honest as you were. He sounds unlikely to be a good Head- if he was he would know schools do not condemn young people for silly mistakes made in times of difficulty. They give them chances to prove themselves. You have proved yourself in life after a sad start.

Hi. Thank you for your reply. I emailed the Chair of Governors. It took him months to reply. He only replied because I emailed again. However, he did apologise for not replying. He also said that it's nothing to do with him.

I agree about young people making mistakes.

Are we to only educate and give chances to the kids who have an unblemished record, in and out of school?

I made, a mistake that I feel ashamed of. I did everything in my power to change my life and be a better person. I want to show young people that through education they can achieve so much. Its never too late.
I hated science at school. I love it now!! I'm a science teacher. I wanted to challenge myself and prove that I'm a good person.

Hi OP, NHS manager here. Theres lots and lots of people with convictions for all sorts of things - refusing to pay poll tax out of principle and "stealing" animals which in their eyes they were rescuing from abuse through to cold blooded murderers.

At future interviews, at the end, just tell them u have a conviction and the context. I promise you, it'll be fine.

As a recruiting manager I love hearing stories behind convictions, makes them memorable and tells me about their character.

Dont let this get you down. Be proud of the tapestry of your life and own it at interview. There are lots of professionals with convictions, they declare and explain, its just that the rest of the workforce don't get to find out x

Hi.... Thank you for your reply. I absolutely think enhanced DBS should be carried out, especially when working with vulnerable people. I don't have a problem at all with that. The children's welfare and safety is the most important thing.

I suppose I felt silenced because I wasn't given a chance to explain to him.

I was vulnerable myself when the conviction happened and the people around me were not concerned for my welfare. I was silenced then and feel silenced now.

Although, a lot of people know now because I felt by telling friends and ex colleagues that I was taking back control. So, I suppose its just him I feel silenced by.

Nothing useful to add @Malibooo but just wanted to say " bloody well done you for turning your whole life around , I know this is upsetting but I'm hoping with your honesty and a bit of common sense , you'll have more success elsewhere " you should be very proud of yourself , and even now I think you are handling this really well .

I agree; @Malibooo you are coming across as very understanding and reasonable about this.

Bottom line is: arson is a serious offence, so even though you know the context and background to it, the actual conviction on your DBS is what it is.

It sounds like what's upsetting you most is feeling you are being silenced and haven't got the opportunity to explain yourself, but honestly I think you need to let this one go; other jobs will come up. I really do think going back to your PGCE course leader or personal tutor might be useful. The panel listened to you and accepted you for training which they wouldn't have done if they'd thought your conviction would prevent you ever teaching. They may be able to advise how you play this going forward. Just prepare yourself that not every school will give you the opportunity to explain, but keep positive, there will be jobs out there. Best of luck

@whoturnedthesunoff thank you so much for your kind message.

Thank you everyone for your replies and advice. I do want to stress that I absolutely agree with schools carrying out an enhanced DBS and if there is anything on it then they should absolutely question the conviction and circumstances. Safeguarding children is an absolute priority.

I loved this particular school and on the whole enjoyed my time there. I respected the HT and I understand that he has made the decision and I must respect that.

I have had a lot of support from family, friends and ex colleagues.

As I have been writing my replies and reading yours, I have come to the conclusion that I feel silenced because he did not give me an opportunity to explain and I have been silenced before. He still might not have employed me and I would have still been upset but this way just makes me feel shame. and unworthy. Like he thinks I'm not worth listening too.

During my time at the school I supported a family (with the current HT permission).
I held clubs every lunchtime for vulnerable pupils and Walk and Talk. Myself and another member of staff took pupils out for a walk around the local area. I also did voluntary work for my towns 'Youth Offending' team. I sat on panels drawing up contracts for young people who had been to court to support them and help keep them out of any more trouble. I'm not saying all this for praise. I think what I'm trying to say is I want to pay back. I want to be in schools. I want young people to know they can achieve and they are worthy no matter what their background is.

I will keep on moving forward and forget this chapter. Thank you again for taking time out of your day and offering advice. It is very much appreciated. A lot of my friends and ex colleagues have said similar. I just wanted to see what people who don't know me thought.
I will start applying for jobs and hope that someone will see past my conviction. Again. Thank you.

Frankly, given the parlous lack of science teachers and the date of the conviction I think the HT was rather short-sited. I can tell you that many other HT would have taken a different view.

I wonder if,rather than the conviction itself, it was that the Headteacher felt they were not given the information up front to make an informed decision that led to the withdrawal of the offer. His subsequent manner may be that he felt blind sided.

What I would recommend is this:

Make absolutely sure you check the application to say you have a conviction. Put a covering letter in (with a copy of your DBS) that explain the circumstances. This will also demonstrate clearly your conviction is not a cause for safeguarding concern.

Be willing to discuss the conviction with the recruiter. Phone the HR manager when you submit your application.

Transparency is the key, it enables the recruiter to have all the facts and mitigate them accordingly.

Consider supply in the meantime, it is likely as a science teacher you will be short of work.

The fact that the Head did not even meet with you and discuss it with you tells you a lot about him. I would have expected him to talk to you and then make an informed decision.
Nothing you can do now. Don't waste your time thinking about it.
When you apply for another job attach a letter, in the application, in a sealed envelope marked Private and FAO Headteacher only. Explain what will appear on your DBS, how long ago it was, how much you regret it , have never had any other conviction and how it influenced the path you took in your career. Say you would welcome the opportunity to discuss it with the Head should you be invited for interview.

It would not have put me off interviewing someone who was honest about it, if they met the criteria. The only times it was ever an issue were on two occasions when candidates said their DBS would be clear and it came back with a conviction.

Hiya, are you in Wales or England? If in Wales and you can register with the EWC that would be helpful. There’s no equivalent in England (to my knowledge)