To not have realised that the government is NOT planning offshore refugee processing

[PurpleParrotfish]

They want to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda, full stop.
Probably my fault for not paying careful enough attention to the news, but a lot of the discussion about this has been based on this misunderstanding.
If anyone makes it to the UK to claim asylum, risking their life to do so in a small boat, the UK will immediately deport them to Rwanda, a country we accept refugees FROM (it can be very dangerous for gay men and lesbians).
Those found to have a genuine refugee claim, maybe who even have family in the UK still won’t be allowed back here.

Thanks cake - I'll have a read through, although possibly not tonight.

Forgot the link, same one for this quote and the one above:

By 2009, the number of political prisoners was in the range of 10,000–30,000, there was widespread and systematic torture and extrajudicial killings, with "anyone" for "any or no reason", including children eight years old, people over 80 years old and ill people, being liable to be arrested, and Eritrea was "one of the world's most totalitarian and human rights-abusing regimes".

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrea

I have every sympathy with the Eritreans wanting a better Eritrea, but leaving Eritrea without its best minds and most powerful intellects in the country while they go elsewhere to get their headspace right just leaves a vacuum to be filled by the dictators.

I have every sympathy with the Eritreans wanting a better Eritrea, but leaving Eritrea without its best minds and most powerful intellects in the country while they go elsewhere to get their headspace right just leaves a vacuum to be filled by the dictators.

This article from today's Sunday Times suggests Denmark had been planning something similar but Priti Patel got there first.

Not only is she an arse. She's a winning arse.

Hardline Denmark ‘has spent 20 years deterring migrants’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4d482176-bda9-11ec-84c4-70cc6ae427fb?shareToken=be35318a85201d235b065a99b39f60d3

@XingMing

I have every sympathy with the Eritreans wanting a better Eritrea, but leaving Eritrea without its best minds and most powerful intellects in the country while they go elsewhere to get their headspace right just leaves a vacuum to be filled by the dictators.

If you were in a country that you thought was dangerous and where you faced persecution, and you had the resources to go, what would you do?

Stay and fight - along with all the risks that brings, or go?

Or leave and hope that a country would bring you in

[quote BewareTheLibrarians]@XingMing how can Eritreans overthrow their government or start a civil war in the situation I outlined above re Eritrea?[/quote]
I do not know. You are (I surmise) Eritrean, and should have some ideas to offer your country. If you don't have any positive actions to propose, then it's a big ask to expect people who probably couldn't find Eritrea on a map to intervene. Have you read Ayaan Hirsi Ali? I know she's Somali, but she's quite fierce about regional politics.

I hope, @cakeorwine, that I would stay and fight.

Ethiopia has 823,000 refugees

www.unhcr.org/ethiopia.html

Ethiopia hosts over 823,000 refugees and asylum seekers predominantly from South Sudan, Somalia and Eritrea. The majority lives in 24 refugee camps established across five regional states. Over 70,000 others also reside in the capital Addis Ababa as urban refugees. 47% of the refugees are women and girls, while 59% are children. Ethiopia also has 4.2 million internally displaced persons (IDPs) and over 1.5 million IDP returnees, largely resulting from the ongoing conflict in northern Ethiopia and localized conflicts and tensions in different parts of the country.

We really are sheltered here from the world's problems.

I can't imagine life in the camps is much fun for people and comes with a lot of issues to survive.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Bit two faced of mumsnet- rushing to take in Ukrainian refugees, less so for Syrians. The public, even the left wingers, don’t really want migrants of black or Middle Eastern ethnicity- no one cares - but I doubt anyone will actually be sent.

Speak for yourself.

The Home Office needs to put in place a proper system for administering asylum claims.

It doesn’t because Priti Patel (and the Tories) doesn’t want anyone here unless they’re rich.

As a result we have a mess where it takes years to process claims because the Home Office is understaffed.

They need to invest in a proper system, put the staff in place then you wouldn’t have the absurdity of claims taking fucking ages and people being stuck in limbo! Then they can either settle quickly and become citizens or be asked to leave.

It’s so nasty and vindictive and like most Tory Nastiness, it costs more in the long run. The Tories are nasty wankers.

Some stats

www.unhcr.org/statistics/unhcrstats/618ae4694/mid-year-trends-2021.html

@Guineapigssweak

Message deleted by MNHQ.

“These men”.

You have no idea.

And it isn’t “just men”. You’ve swallowed the lie that it’s only people who are economic migrants.

It’s not actually. Have you forgotten the images of that little boy who drowned? Washed up on the beach? Pregnant women have died on that crossing.

People have the right to claim asylum. It’s not illegal. Most claims are actually shown to be legal claims!

I haven't noticed Russia, who did much of the destruction to Syria in support of Bashad, rushing in with resettlement offers.

People seeking asylum are not allowed to claim benefits or work in the UK. If they are destitute and have no other means of supporting themselves, they can apply to receive asylum support. This is set at around £5.66 per day.

[quote Siepie]What’s to stop every asylum seeker saying they’re gay and therefore can’t be sent there?

Given the UK asylum system tests people's claims of being gay so rigorously that some gay asylum seekers have felt it necessary to film themselves having sex with other men in order to be believed, I don't think that would be an easy option.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-24479812[/quote]
Thank goodness that all stopped years ago, following legal challenge. Your link is a decade out of date.

Now if an asylum seeker says they are gay, they must be believed.

@XingMing I’m not Eritrean. I just saw that a lot of Eritrean refugees were arriving in the UK and, rather than assuming they were workshy economic migrants coming here for a laugh, I googled what was happening in Eritrea and saw how horrific the situation was.

You say you would stay and fight. Good for you. In Eritrea, that would have you most likely murdered or imprisoned (as in the example I linked to above with thousands imprisoned indefinitely for just asking for democratic debate) and what good are you going to do for your country dead or in prison?

I’m ignoring the sheer arrogance of assuming I’m Eritrean and therefore demanding I come up with a better solution for “my” country.

If you were to calculate the figures by population size and density, the UK may take what you view as a miniscule share, but there are nearly 70million people on a smallish island here, already fairly tightly packed in if you want to allow some space for agriculture and food security.

We've not had food security for centuries, either in man power or crops, its just not possible, we need to import food and huge amounts, as we did in WW2.

We've also an aging pop. and birthrates in the negative, so who is going to look after us all, pay taxes and do the jobs that we will no longer be able to do?

UK has plenty of land but shockingly poor infrastructure and a weird housing dev policy that uses up huge space per dwelling, maybe that creates more wealth for Persimmon?

The Govt appear to want HK Chinese to do this all but many of these folk are old too.

Might be better to provide support and aid to poorer countries so people stay where they are, rather than travel '000s of miles but BJ cut that.....

What on earth events 400 years ago are to do with this subject is beyond me, too much wine or posted on the wrong thread?

@XingMing

I haven't noticed Russia, who did much of the destruction to Syria in support of Bashad, rushing in with resettlement offers.

Its a thread about the UK's new refugee policy, start a new one on Russia's refugee record if it means a lot to you.

Israël deported asylum seekers to Rwanda (choice between prison and deportation with 3.5k starting money).

As this article shows, it didn’t work well for those deported and they struggled to find work. So whoever said that it suits Rwanda because they need working men, I don’t think that’s true. This is a country when over half live on a dollar a day or less

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/asylum-seekers-who-left-israel-for-rwanda-warn-those-remaining-don-t-1.5785996

"The U.K. hosts less than 1% of the worlds refugees and displaced people.
Turkey hosts nearly 4 million refugees.
Lebanon is about the size of Wales and hosts about 1.5 million
Columbia currently hosts 1.7 million

About 80% of refugees stay in the local region.

A tiny, tiny minority reach the worlds 5th richest nation and people bleat that we don't have the resources to help those few (relatively) who come to us for refuge and sanctuary.

Makes me weep."

This. I agree completely.

In answer to the question, what is the solution, we should accept all those who want to come here. It's not that many people and we have an aging and increasingly economically inactive population. We have a massive pensions crisis looming without enough young people working to pay for them. This is a disaster waiting to happen. We don't have enough people to do all sorts of jobs.

We are appeasing the worst aspects of society with this scaremongering about refugees. It's ridiculous to say we are 'full' or can't afford this that or the other. We can afford what we have the political will to afford. Stop voting Tory.

We'll be affording Tory corruption to the detriment of our children and and grandchildren's lives. They are using your own selfish and short sighted behaviour to hoodwink you into thinking they aren't the criminals they are.

I despair.

@mumofone63 of course people seek asylum in other countries too. Don’t buy into the media depicting the UK as being a unique refugee magnet. In fact the majority of refugees end up in neighbouring countries & no further than that!

In the year ending September 2021, Germany received the highest number of asylum applicants (127,730) in the EU+, followed by France (96,510). When compared with the EU+, the UK received the 4th largest number of applicants (44, 190 – including main applicants and dependents). This equates to 8% of the total asylum applicants across the EU+ and UK combined over that period, or the 18th largest intake when measured per head of population.
Germany, France, Spain and Italy accounted for around 70% of all first-time applicants in the EU-27. These figures include all asylum applicants, not just main applicants (i.e. including children and other dependents). World-wide around 85% of all refugees live in developing regions , not in wealthy industrialised countries, and 73% of refugees displaced abroad live in countries neighbouring their countries of origin.
(Source: Home Office, EuroStat)

And seeing as the whole point of this policy is that the UK will not be processing/ determining any claims before sending people to Rwanda, no one will ever know whether the people sent over are genuine refugees or economic migrants.

By the way, it’s funny how we never call the wealthy people who can get visas because they earn enough (finance, law, etc) ‘economic migrants’. Grim dog whistle politics.

@XingMing it is purely by fluke that we were born in a democratic & mostly settled country.

It’s easy to say you think you’d stay & fight but when you started hearing the bombs drop would you really? Would you leave your 18 year old son to fight a war that was not of yours or his making? Would you tell your husband to stay behind and fight despite him say being an accountant who had never held a weapon in his life?

Suggesting all men should stay behind in war torn countries is fairly monstrous. I hope you or your family never have to experience that decision personally.

I can’t imagine condemning anyone for wanting to flee & find safety from war, natural disasters or persecution. Or to sneer at them that they were born elsewhere so they must resign themselves to their fate there.