to think covid lateral flow tests should still be free...

[jobhunter7]

to think lateral flow tests should still be free...

@trollopolis

the country has had many more deaths in a usual flu year

Big lie technique still going strong I see

Research the ONS figures

It's rare that there are more than 30,000 flu/pneumonia deaths per annum (that's the typical 'bad season' figure). Deaths are currently about 2000 a week (down from winter peaks, lower than previous variant) but,that's over 100,000 a year.

Even with likelihood of even lower rates in the summer, this is way more than flu.

And flu deaths include with/of so it's same basis of counting

I agree, except I think ‘living with it’ means taking appropriate measures like enabling appropriate testing, mask wearing etc.

The question is, why are these measures considered 'appropriate'? You don't say what you mean by appropriate testing, but in the context of this thread it probably means widespread free at the point of use testing available to the public? And we already know that this plus masks didn't curb the Omicron wave, so it's essentially advocacy for something that hasn't worked. This is very important given the costs of the tests.

It rare for flu to exceed 400 per 100k population - not ONS, but respectable figures - has happened only 6 times since the 1960s, and then only for a few weeks. We are only just down to 428 per 100k, after running much higher since the autumn. As seasonality seems to be weaker, then this is producing considerable more excess deaths

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/lessons-from-40-years-surveillance-of-influenza-in-england-and-wales/C0D2582BC6DA0CF65D167DDE4A1EAA07

There are other graphs available if you google which look at excess deaths, and really show how much greater it has been in the covid pandemic years than in even pandemic flu years.

I'm sorry if the term 'big lie' was a bit much. But some inaccurate information is bandied round and repeated in ways that mean it gets a currency. And that's unfortunate because it's just plain wrong

You don't say what you mean by appropriate testing, but in the context of this thread it probably means widespread free at the point of use testing available to the public? And we already know that this plus masks didn't curb the Omicron wave, so it's essentially advocacy for something that hasn't worked. This is very important given the costs of the tests.

The Omicron variant is very infectious, but would have had a far higher peak without isolation and masks, so no, you are wrong to say that these measures have done nothing to curb omicron. Now numbers are increasing again and the government is playing its ‘nothing to see here’ game while schools and hospitals struggle. Even if everyone eventually catches Covid multiple times, infection rates matter.

There is no particular reason to believe that future variants will be milder.

In the short term appropriate testing certainly means more tests available for people in regular contact with people who are vulnerable, regardless of their income.

Whether universal free testing is required is another question, but the government has decided Covid is over, so testing can’t be discussed at all. Instead we have to waste time pointing out why their Rwanda scheme is bat shit crazy.

Meanwhile it’s very worrying when ministers talk about being the first country to make Covid endemic, as though that is within their control, or as though endemic diseases are harmless and require no restrictions or action.

By having no free tests - aren't we penalising people who care a bit and don't want to infect more vulnerable members of society?

@Merrymouse

You don't say what you mean by appropriate testing, but in the context of this thread it probably means widespread free at the point of use testing available to the public? And we already know that this plus masks didn't curb the Omicron wave, so it's essentially advocacy for something that hasn't worked. This is very important given the costs of the tests.

The Omicron variant is very infectious, but would have had a far higher peak without isolation and masks, so no, you are wrong to say that these measures have done nothing to curb omicron. Now numbers are increasing again and the government is playing its ‘nothing to see here’ game while schools and hospitals struggle. Even if everyone eventually catches Covid multiple times, infection rates matter.

There is no particular reason to believe that future variants will be milder.

In the short term appropriate testing certainly means more tests available for people in regular contact with people who are vulnerable, regardless of their income.

Whether universal free testing is required is another question, but the government has decided Covid is over, so testing can’t be discussed at all. Instead we have to waste time pointing out why their Rwanda scheme is bat shit crazy.

Meanwhile it’s very worrying when ministers talk about being the first country to make Covid endemic, as though that is within their control, or as though endemic diseases are harmless and require no restrictions or action.

You didn't mention isolation in the post I quoted. That being said, the system we had, where people could find themselves without money to pay basic living costs if they did isolate and criminalised if they didn't was a very bad one. It's no surprise that so many people didn't follow it.

And without any evidence, the assertion that the peak would've been higher if we hadn't done these things is just faith based. The fact that they demonstrably didn't control Omicron means arguments about future variants aren't actually applicable: the point you're making there is one in favour of interventions and policies that demonstrably work. Ie, not masks against Omicron. If there were viable options on the table to actually get such contagious variants under control, we'd be starting at a very different point from where we are now.

I've no objection in principle to more free at the point of use testing access for those in contact with vulnerable people, but no idea how we'd manage to administer something like that without it basically turning into free testing for anyone who wants it. It's not realistic to expect it would be policed in any way, so it would be expensive.

Am assuming people haven't been stockpiling too much as the flow tests have an expiry. But maybe the new advice/ad campaign could be just test if you feel like you have symptoms... so people are using far less of these lf tests...

@jobhunter7

By having no free tests - aren't we penalising people who care a bit and don't want to infect more vulnerable members of society?

In other countries they just pay for it, what's the difference? Why can't the people of the UK pay for them directly?

in other countries they just pay for it, what's the difference? Why can't the people of the UK pay for them directly?

Not if they cavy afford it, like if they are already struggling financially. The cost of living has sky rocketed recentjy.

It's no surprise that so many people didn't follow it.

Some people couldn’t self isolate without support, but many, many who could reduced social contacts and did isolate. Measures to reduce social contact have reduced infection at all stages of the pandemic, so it’s a little silly to suggest they had no effect during Winter 2021/22

The fact that they demonstrably didn't control Omicron means arguments about future variants aren't actually applicable

See my previous point.

If you honestly think these restrictions have no effect, do you think hospitals are banning visitors and asking people to wear masks for a laugh?

@Merrymouse

It's no surprise that so many people didn't follow it.

Some people couldn’t self isolate without support, but many, many who could reduced social contacts and did isolate. Measures to reduce social contact have reduced infection at all stages of the pandemic, so it’s a little silly to suggest they had no effect during Winter 2021/22

The fact that they demonstrably didn't control Omicron means arguments about future variants aren't actually applicable

See my previous point.

If you honestly think these restrictions have no effect, do you think hospitals are banning visitors and asking people to wear masks for a laugh?

Nobody said nobody followed the isolation restrictions, so that's a strawman. It was, however, an awful system, impossible to enforce and isn't coming back.

And again, if you had any actual evidence of the specific things you mentioned doing anything to control Omicron, you'd be able to post it rather than hiding behind things like silly because people question your faith. Or moving the goalposts: why do you think policies in hospitals, very restricted settings where it's possible to exert a much higher degree of control than in general life, mean something is going to curb Omicron on a population level? You haven't explained that at all.

@jobhunter7 masks hardly helped in Scotland and Wales did they? There isn't going to be any new campaigns and testing is on then way out - can't come soon enough as it is feeding hysteria and paranoia.

After SARS in south-east asian countries, it became the norm to wear a mask if you were sniffly...

I think either you remove the requirement for testing entirely or you make the tests free for those that need them. The system at the moment is shocking.

I'm pregnant and currently have to have regular scans. I have to show evidence of a negative LFT to access those scans.

I have to pay for LFTs, and the hospital is getting cross that I can't prove an official negative, because there's no way of registering the tests, because there are no NHS ones. But I can't access NHS ones. Vicious and expensive circle.

MIL is CEV. She has daily carers and is desperately unwell. We also spend a great deal of time looking after her. We could just not test before we see her, but then we could quite easily kill her. Yet more tests we're buying.

DH works in an industry that has a lot of events he has to attend. All those events require proof of a negative LFT. Work / event organisers won't provide them. If he doesn't go to the events he could lose his job. Even more tests we must buy.

Either scrap testing (e.g. for hospital appointments and work events) or provide tests for them for free. And there must be some sort of system to protect the CEV.

A total mess.

Not to mention that all the reported figures are now total BS because the vast majority of people can't register positive results 🙄

After SARS in south-east asian countries, it became the norm to wear a mask if you were sniffly...

And most of the country probably has a reusable mask now... so we may as well wear use them to reduce the spread of flu and colds...

Re masks it would require a cultural shift in this country which won't happen - id say your best bet is to crack on wearing one as that is your personal choice - as will the majority of people will exercise their personal choice not to wear one.

It has happened in other parts of the world... and it's not asking people to wear masks all the time...

I have to pay for LFTs, and the hospital is getting cross that I can't prove an official negative, because there's no way of registering the tests, because there are no NHS ones. But I can't access NHS ones. Vicious and expensive circle.

That's a pretty shit situation.

These may help...

www.fastcompany.com/90740506/this-1-covid-test-could-make-going-out-again-a-breeze

Nope. Disagree.

Yeah. And while we’re at it I’d quite like gas and electricity to be free too. And food.

@jobhunter7

By having no free tests - aren't we penalising people who care a bit and don't want to infect more vulnerable members of society?

By implication, those who do no test, do not care. Which is what’s wrong with your entire argument. You only care when it’s other people spending money to help you be caring, sharing. The caring seems to stop when people have to pay for stuff themselves.

@HardyBuckette

I have to pay for LFTs, and the hospital is getting cross that I can't prove an official negative, because there's no way of registering the tests, because there are no NHS ones. But I can't access NHS ones. Vicious and expensive circle.

That's a pretty shit situation.

@HardyBuckette - it's completely infuriating.

DH has stopped coming for scans with me because that doubles the cost and the arguments about test registration.

Hospital says he's allowed to come but that he must register his test (which he can't do because no NHS available).

Last time he showed them a photo of a bought test and they weren't happy about it and I ended up being late for my scan (which they also weren't happy about).

Enraging and expensive. Week after week after week. On top of an already stressful pregnancy (hence needing all the scans in the first place).

Yeah it’s easy to ‘care’ when someone else is paying for it.