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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be unsure if my parents were good or bad?

52 replies

purpleplatypus2022 · 16/04/2022 16:18

Looking for an honest appraisal here... I was discussing my childhood with a couple of friends last night... one seemed horrified at it, whilst the other said it was fairly normal and nothing to get worked up about. Would appreciate people's honest impressions and feedback.

Long story short.. I grew up in a typical lower middle-class household in a town in the north that's seen much better days. My dad grew up quite poor in a large family whereas my mother was raised as a single child by a single mom (her dad ran off with another woman when she was very young).

Both parents were quite distant - no hugs, kisses, and my dad was prone to bursts of anger e.g. when me or my brother caused a mess. Not all the time, just a few times a year, so it was hard to know what would set him off. This made me quite wary of him and hyper-alter to possible things that might set him off. The worst such incident was when in a rage he threw my favourite doll in the bin after I without thinking I walked through the house in muddy boots, leaving footprints everywhere. After each such outburst he would usually sulk in his room for several hours/a day, then emerge as if nothing had happened. Often he would later buy us toys, video games etc. as if to make up for it. My mom never once challenged him on this behaviour and in fact tried to placate him everytime it happened.

As you can imagine from her childhood my mom has fairly low self-esteem and is prone to depression. As far as I know my dad is the only man she ever dated. Neither of them had any close friends. The more I think about it the more it seems that she was absolutely unwilling risk the marriage in any way and end up alone, and so she put that above our needs. She also only had a poorly-paid part time clerking job in a local bank so she was probably financially dependent as well. Their marriage was based on quite a rigid gender divide on chores (mom did all the cooking and cleaning, dad the lawn, DIY, bills). To this day I don’t think my dad even knows how to make something simple like cheese on toast. They remain together seemingly out of habit and routine and mutual dependence.

That said I have quite a lot of nice memories from childhood – we weren’t rich by any means but we had annual holidays to Scotland, all the toys etc. we wanted, and they encouraged us to read, apply myself at school, visit museums etc. It was not horrific by any stretch of the imagination, as my friend pointed out (she was hit by her strict father on multiple occasions).

However when adolescence come round they seemed to completely lose interest tbh. It's as if now that we had a mind of our own and could no longer be 'bought off' with toys that they had no idea to deal with us. I received zero guidance or advice from them about the adult world. Literally none - they told me nothing about dating, sex, periods, money, jobs, personal hygiene, alcohol/drugs. I had to learn all of this by myself or via friends. My dad would often moan that me and my brother did nothing around the house, but when we offered to help or asked how to do things (e.g. how to mow the lawn) he would just dismiss us and say 'I'll do it - you'd only mess it up anyway'. His outbursts grew less frequent though he seemed to sink into apathy as we grew more and more distant. He hated his job (lower level manager at a local hospital) and was constantly moaning about it and guilt-tripping me and my brother (’10 more years of this as I’ve got to pay off this house you two live in’, ‘I’d be free of this burden if it wasn’t for you kids’ etc.). As far as I know he never once tried to change careers – he just grimly stuck with it down to retirement. There was probably also some resentment at mom’s part-time job and financial dependence on him.

My mom grew aimless as we grew more independent – the latter had to be fought for as she seemed determined to cling to the mother role (e.g. she insisted on bathing us until we 12, and bought all of our clothes until we were 16 - both of these only stopped when we forced it.). At the time I thought this was because she cared for us, but now I can’t help but feel it was more that she was unwilling to let go of the mother role as she had nothing to replace it with.

My brother reacted to all this by getting involved with the local ne’er-do-wells– drink, drugs, partying etc. I just withdrew almost completely. I taught myself most of the life lessons my parents had not imparted. One incident sticks in my mind: I was 17 and it was the first year I didn’t go on holiday to Scotland with them. Instead I went to Paris for a weekend with a friend (my first trip abroad). I didn’t tell them – I planned and booked it all (ferries, hotel etc.) on my own. I told them I was going a week before. The day of leaving I got up very early to get a bus to the local train station, to get the train to Dover, and my dad also got up and absolutely insisted on driving me there. I was furious – I was quite proud with myself for booking the whole trip independently and this seemed like a deliberate attempt to insinuate himself into ‘my’ thing, to make himself feel useful and needed and to try and take back some control, and I almost just walked out the door. My mom encouraged me to relent and I did and we all just sat in the car in mutual resentment as he drove me to the station.

This continued for years…. I then went to uni on the other side other country, and later moved to London, so I rarely see them. I don’t mind visiting now and again for a weekend but that’s it – any longer and all the old feelings come bubbling up. One trip my dad started getting all angry after I accidentally split a coffee on the table and (after cleaning it up) I told him in no uncertain terms that anymore of that and I'd be getting the next train back to London (which he accepted after sulking for an hour in his study). In many ways I feel sorry for my parents as they had difficult childhoods and so never gained the love or parenting skills they needed. My first couple of relationships were disasters as I ended with men quite similar to my father – distant, uncommunicative, prone to behaviour like sulking or passive-aggression etc. After a bout of therapy I learned why this was and am now happily with a kind, responsible and mature man who I would like to children with one day.

Note I am NOT looking for pity. I long ago accepted things that happened and moved on. As my friend said, things could have been a hell of a lot worse. She even said that in some ways my hyper-independence and lack of visiting is quite selfish.

However my other friend, who comes from a very close family, says that my family were deeply dysfunctional, neglectful and emotionally abusive.

I would like to know people's thoughts on all this. I'm torn between the two views but lack the objectivity to evaluate it fairly.

OP posts:
TheYearOfSmallThings · 16/04/2022 20:15

It sounds like they were flawed parents, due to their own flawed upbringings, but I wouldn't say unusual or abusive. They probably didn't have the skills to support you with advice on careers or relationships.

There is a lot of revisionism now whereby people are encouraged to judge parenting from past decades by the standards of today (and without recognising that the way we do things now will also be criticised in retrospect). I see a lot of it in Mumsnet and I think it has the potential to do as much harm as good.

lljkk · 16/04/2022 20:17

Lightly dysfunctional -- which was fairly 'normal' for people in my generation, born 1960s. When I feel bad about my own parenting I try to hold onto fact I have parented better than my mom & she parented a lot better than her mom.

I know some stories from friend's childhood (1980s-90s) which was worse in all domains, from what I can figure out, and still probably above threshold of physical neglect/abuse. Emotionally abusive, though. Her parents also did hugely better than their own parents, etc.

Namechangeplease · 16/04/2022 20:20

I’m really sorry OP. I can relate to a lot of your experience (not your brother’s, but yours definitely.)

I hope you found the therapy helpful - I think it can be really useful. And I’m really pleased you’re in a happy, healthy relationship with your partner. I wish you all the best Flowers

TheOGCCL · 16/04/2022 20:23

I think the encouraging around school and cultural trips are key, in that you clearly ended up a functioning, intelligent adult who is able to understand very clearly the good and bad parts and presumably will avoid repeating these mistakes and live a successful life.

It kind of sounds like your parents live/d a life of drudgery, not particularly alleviated by raising children, and just weren't very happy.

sweetbellyhigh · 16/04/2022 20:36

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, all that matters is how you feel about it.

Our upbringings are pretty much done to us but the moment we leave, we can choose what we do with our lives including how we manage feelings about our pasts and how we interact with our family of origin.

It's great to see that you invested in therapy and have considerable insight into your upbringing.

Your friends' judgements of your childhood are neither right or wrong, but rather indicative of their own experiences. So your friend with the idyllic upbringing will of course view yours with horror 🤷‍♀️

On the other hand, someone who grew up in dire poverty and with violence may consider it enviable.

I think most parents do the best they can with what they have, and in general it's an improvement on their own upbringings.

Times were radically different even 30 years ago, we know so much more about parenting and relationships now. It has become acceptable for people to seek psychological help and admit to feeling less than sure.

Whatever you experienced, good and bad, belongs to you. Just as your decision to choose minimal involvement with your parents now is yours. That is what is key, knowing we have the right to our feelings and level of interaction.

DFOD · 16/04/2022 20:53

Seems that both of your parents came from very difficult backgrounds which likely left them both with their own challenges and deficits.

It seems that they both gave you more than they had both materially and aspirationaly as children.

Your mother did also all she could in her own way to maintain a 2 parent household (even if on reflection you believe she should have left) as she didn’t want you to have her experience of having a single parent. She maybe over extended her mothering role so it became smothering - but if her intentions were good - is that enough?

It seems that they endured each other and raised their DCs without the privilege and opportunity to heal the wounds and fill the deficits that you had through therapy from their own childhood.

I think the term “parenting” was only invented in the 1990s - people didn’t have the emotional role models or knowledge to fall back on.

TheKeatingFive · 16/04/2022 20:55

There is a lot of revisionism now whereby people are encouraged to judge parenting from past decades by the standards of today (and without recognising that the way we do things now will also be criticised in retrospect).

I agree with this

They're just people OP. Flawed people. They got some things right. Some things wrong. Some of their behaviour was totally understandable, some of it less so.

My parents weren't equipped for certain aspects of parenting. They just didn't have the skills. They tried their best however.

nexus63 · 16/04/2022 21:06

the first 5 years of my life i spent mostly with my gran, i moved back with her and my stepdad (did not know he was not my dad). i thought my childhood was just like all my friends, as i got older i realised that i was different, my dad was not my dad, he hated me, it was silly things like coming in with sweets for the others but not me. i got to about 11 and that's when he started with the comments about taking my virginty away from me, my mum worked till about 11.30 every night and i started to get scared, the night he tried it i told my mum, she slapped me and that was it. i told my gran and moved in with her. she left him and when he was in hospital he asked to see me before he died and i could not go. she then re-married, i kept my distance from them but i still sent the usual cards for birthday and mothers day. she has no empathy for anyone or maybe it's just me. she tried to get close to me a few years ago when i became ill but it is too late, when i lost my husband in my 30's her answer was....you can marry someone else, now she is widowed and is depending on me for someone to talk to, she always ends the call with love you, i say it but i don't mean it i found my dad about 5 years ago and we have a good relationship but i have had to say to him when he starts the "dad" bit that it is too late for that. i don't feel that i have missed out, i just feel very let down and she does not understand, we tried to talk and she always ends up being the one saying she did her best and it was not her fault.

Cultureclub · 16/04/2022 21:32

Parenting is shockingly difficult and people, including parents,are complex. You don't appear to have gone hungry or been abused and for many that would be a good childhood

Kanaloa · 16/04/2022 22:20

It doesn’t sound like a good upbringing to me, and mine was much worse so I’m not holding parents up to unachievable standards. Father exploding into rages and blaming you for his having to work to pay bills, throwing away favourite toys, mother bathing you until age 12 etc. It sounds like they did a poor job. I disagree with those posters saying it sounds ‘fine.’

However, I think as adults we must move on from our parents and view them as the flawed people they are, and do better for our own children.

DFOD · 16/04/2022 23:16

@Kanaloa

It doesn’t sound like a good upbringing to me, and mine was much worse so I’m not holding parents up to unachievable standards. Father exploding into rages and blaming you for his having to work to pay bills, throwing away favourite toys, mother bathing you until age 12 etc. It sounds like they did a poor job. I disagree with those posters saying it sounds ‘fine.’

However, I think as adults we must move on from our parents and view them as the flawed people they are, and do better for our own children.

I agree with this.

It wasn’t good enough.

It was lacking and inadequate.

Your father’s rage was abusive and unacceptable. They were a product of their own childhoods which were deficient. It explains it doesn’t excuse it or make it acceptable.

Well done for seeking therapy first time round and for recognising the pattern of bad relationships and moving through that to a much better place.

It’s not good or bad and not determined by others opinions. It’s what you feel and are aware impacts you negatively and how you can seek support to heal it. “Blaming” them won’t necessarily help you - but acknowledging it wasn’t sufficient and working to actively resolve the impact on you is the way forward.

Keep going. Keep reflecting and seeking insight and help to move you forward.

Imlovinglife · 16/04/2022 23:18

Why don't you just leave it alone? It's in the past

Magnoliayellowbird · 16/04/2022 23:29

To be honest, you sound like someone who has read multiple Mumsnet threads on perfect parenting for their own youngsters and are now wondering why your own parents didn't match up.

You weren't abused, your parents did their best and loved you. They might not have been 'perfect' but no parents are. Their own upbringing will have had an impact, and I don't think you need to decide whether they were good or bad. It was what it was. Just get on with your life.

SaggyBlinders · 16/04/2022 23:32

As my friend said, things could have been a hell of a lot worse. She even said that in some ways my hyper-independence and lack of visiting is quite selfish.

I wouldn't listen to your friend, or the replies on here. It's your experience and no one else's.

Blanketpolicy · 16/04/2022 23:44

Most of your OP rings a lot of bells, my mum and dad were similar, they did their best, much much better than they themselves were parented. Far from ideal by todays standards, but even further from being "bad" parents.

runforyourdog · 17/04/2022 00:28

I dunno you can pick the bad bits out can't you but doesn't sound so bad.

I also have non perfect parents. Who does!? Could describe much worse situations than driving you to the train station!! But they are good people and I love them. They love me.

fallfallfall · 17/04/2022 00:42

you can't judge the past by today's standards.
realize that not only were you affected by your parent's parenting skills, but by your grandparents and their parents and the socio-economic times.
pick out the good bits, and try and avoid the stuff you didn't like.
personally from decades of experience i wouldn't believe anyone who claimed to have the perfect family upbringing.

Momijin · 17/04/2022 01:01

They don't sound like good parents. Both cloying and neglectful at the same time.

My parents were great in many ways but very controlling and strict with very high standards. They were brilliant when we were young but as teenagers, we were given very little freedom.

I'm careful to not be like that with my own kids.

Notjustanymum · 17/04/2022 05:36

You learn from your parents and either choose to emulate them, or realise their flaws and try not to emulate them. OP you seem to have learned from their mistakes, which is the best and most positive outcome. Now you have the chance to rebuild a relationship with them on your own terms, if you want to, or not to, if you don’t.
I chose the former, and my relationship with my parents became much better when it was on my terms. E.g. I could take them to places (neither had ever owned a car) and share experiences that they’d never had (they were wrapped up in their own art-based cultural world) such as visiting gardens and stately homes, even going on day-trips to France Etc.
Both parents are long passed now, but I do feel happy that I was able to change their thoughts about me, as I felt I became their adult daughter that they were proud of.
With my own DC I was able to handle their transition from children to adults, and they didn’t have to figure it out for themselves as I did - so that was a useful lesson, and I’ve had a much better relationship with them as a result.
The key thing is to realise that you can’t change the past, but that you’re in control of your own future. I hope you find some peace💐

OUchica · 17/04/2022 06:14

Dont understand the logic - if today it would be abusive, if 40 years ago it wasn't abusive or dysfunctional, it was the norm. By this logic many horrific things happened in history should not be judged by today's moral standards.
Op abusive or not, it was a damaging environment and it impacted you and your brother. Insisiting on bathing preteens is not normal and shows your mother lacked empathy to understand how it must have made you and your brother feel.
Insisiting on dropping you to station could be out of concern or guilt, but there are many things in your OP to suggest it was not nurturing environment.
You were walking on egg shells around your father to avoid his outbursts. If this is abusive for an adult, it is for a child too.

Girlmumdogmumboymum · 17/04/2022 06:24

I think that your parents tried with the knowledge that they had to hand. I do understand why you feel the way you do, but I also really think that it's important to realise that it seems like they really tried to meet the things that they understood were expected of them.
It doesn't sound like an entirely happy childhood, but as you say, they weren't exposed to happy childhoods themselves so they struggled to replicate that.

Sounds like they both have some considerable MH issues which would receive some support Now, but wouldn't have even appeared as a possibility of something that needed treatment then.

In your situation, I'd probably be fairly distant because time with Dad is tense, and m sounds standoffish, but would understand that they ultimately met most of the goals of parenting despite missing a few.

Nothing else will give you peace, holding onto resentment just eats you up inside.

JaneyJimplin · 17/04/2022 06:31

I think your parents were just human. I've spent a long time feeling angry and sad about my childhood but the feeling I've been somehow wronged has eroded now I have my own children. I'm not the mother I thought or hoped I'd be. I'm human too.

The Philip larkin poem sums it up.

Sweepingeyelashes · 17/04/2022 07:03

I think you were loved and your parents did their best. I don't blame your mother for staying when she could earn very little herself plus the cost of childcare. How would you have seen things panning out if she had left? They certainly couldn't have afforded two houses. My own parents stayed together for similar reasons and I am grateful.

I was going to do parenting so much better than my parents. I think I simply made different mistskes. Having raised my own children I have a different perspective on my parents. My mother though did turn into the perfect grandma and she was adored by my children in a way that almost made me a bit jealous.

PurrBox · 17/04/2022 07:07

You are an excellent writer, OP: clear, insightful, gripping.

There is a lot of pain in what you write, and I understand the significance of the trip to the train station.

Life is hard, and being a parent is hard. Being a grown up is hard.

OldLadyInPolyester · 17/04/2022 07:35

They fuck you up your mum and dad....

I think we could all reflect on the 'bad' aspects of how we were parented and think about how that has shaped us as adults. No one is perfect and it sounds like your parents got it wrong in some areas but they also got a lot right.

I think it's sad that you didn't get the hugs and physically warmth from your parents and your dad could have handled stressful situations better. I don't think they sound abusive though. If and when you have children, you'll build on what they got right and avoid the bits the got wrong.

The lack of emotional warmth has meant you don't want / need more regular contact with them now. That's you're choice and the consequence of how they parented. If that's something you continue to struggle with, perhaps counselling would help but it sounds to me that you now have a good and happy life?