AIBU to not punish potty training accidents?

[UpToMyElbowsInDiapers]

We potty trained DS when he was 2 years old. It went pretty well. Then, he had a 12-day tummy bug. After cleaning diarrhea off the sofa twice, I put him back in a diaper (anticipating an illness of a couple of days, not 12!!!) He totally regressed and had no interest in going back to potty training. I decided not to force the issue.

Now, he’s recently 3. Last weekend, he asked me to go to the toilet a couple of times and was successful! He was keen to be a big boy. We kept him home for 2 days and potty trained him - only 3 accidents on day one!

… but he’s plateaued there. 3-5 accidents every day (although I’ll grant he also has several successes each day, often self-initiated). Often, his accident is less than 10 minutes after we’ve asked if he needs to go. He says no, keeps on playing, has an accident… and keeps on playing! He does not care a whit if he is wet or dirty.

Both daycare and my DGM have suggested that he’s old enough to be totally capable of potty training, he has SHOWN he’s capable by potty training at 2, and was doing really quite well on Day 1 without diapers. They suggest gently punishing accidents at home (they won’t punish him at daycare) - either give him a time out, or revoke his after-supper television privileges.

I’m uneasy with this idea. Yes, he’s resisting and tantruming a fair bit at the moment, especially about poos, but I worry that punishing him will just escalate things, and today is only Day 5.

I’d rather keep this a neutral or positive experience. At the same time, my method isn’t being wildly successful, so maybe I’m wrong!

YABU - give him a time out. He knows how to use the potty, he just can’t be bothered, and he needs consequences.

YANBU - punishing 3-year-olds for accidents won’t work. (But other suggestions are helpful!)

We found that a slightly different phrasing helped with DD at a similar stage. If we asked her whether she needed the toilet she would frequently say no, as she was concentrating on playing and hadn't realised she did. If we instead asked her to try on the toilet she generally responded to that as an instruction and headed to the toilet. It took about a month for her to properly recognise for herself that she needed the toilet in time to get there, so our prompting at regular intervals helped until then.

Are you outside of the UK? I don’t think any nursery would suggest punishment like that for toilet training accidents.

@Threetulips

I would when dirty or wet lead him to the bathroom ask him to wait while you get clean clothes - do this slowly - don’t engage with him bar instructions to clean/undress/dress and take your time - he wants to play and this is timeout by the back door! He’ll get the message that using the toilet is much quicker than getting changed and it makes using the loo ‘worth while’

I agree with this too. It isn't a punishment per se, but gives him time away from his toys etc to consider his actions and think about how to do better. At 3, if he is nt he should be able to crack this.

Punishment or negativity is not the way forward. You’ll set yourself and him for more difficulties further down the line.

He’s only 3.

I remember a psychologist telling me if you punish and make a big deal of stuff like this then its likely to cause issues later on in life, like those people who wont use a public toilet or have fetishes. Not sure how true this is but I guess mental issues around going to the toilet have to come from somewhere!

Irrespective of this, I don't think having an accident is the same as doing something deliberately and he is still learning so I wouldn't punish.

I would have natural consequences though. 'Oh no, now we have to stop playing, go for a quick shower and get new clothes, if you'd gone in the toilet you would only have had to stop playing for a minute and you'd be playing again now. Never mind!' type thing.

My second was a bit harder to train and I read a book that suggested going back a stage if they are struggling so we went back to them being naked, and then did a stage without pants which seemed to help. When they had pants on i think it reminded them of a nappy too much so they just went in pants.

My friend had the same issues and said to her 3 year old he could have a toy he was desperate for if he was dry for a week and the accidents stopped overnight

Don't punish the behaviour, do as a PP has mentioned,
Gently take him to the toilet to wait whilst you get his change of clothes so he sees that it takes him time to get sorted out and re-initiated with what he was busy with before.

With DD we also used stickers charts, each time she "went" she got a sticker.
At the end of each day without an accident there was a treat. Usually sweeties of some sort for the first week.
By the second week we had spotted a toy she liked in Asda. She could have that if we got to the end of the week without a (day) accident.
We continued on like that, celebrating each time, and each day and tapered off the stickers and additional treats.

At one point, I found out break times at school and set the routine in at home for breaks, lunch, hometime etc. So coming away from activities, wash, sit to eat and a proper drink, toilets, wash and then away again. Dd felt very grown up doing that.

Just remember that training for wees and poos are two different things. Wees are the urinary system and poos are the digestive system which may or may not develop at the same time. Dd was out of nappies except for once per day for poos for some time. I did have to take a hard line one day which eventually involved doing stuff handy to the toilet and, at the critical moment, picking her up and running. We were fine from then.

Children develop differently. Not all children are ready at the same time. Wanting to keep playing instead of going to the toilet isn’t a deliberate act of defiance. It’s just his brain and body are still set to be driven towards play. It’s crucial for learning and development. It’s normal and OK that he does this. He shouldn’t feel shame about it - which is what punishment would do.

I think I would chat to him about it when all is calm. In a light hearted and warm way. ‘Hey, I was thinking. You know how you love playing?’ Yes. ‘I think sometimes you love it so much you forget to go to the loo - is that right?’ Yes. ‘Then it takes ages doesn’t it to clean up and change?’ Yes. ‘And you miss some playing time then? Yes. ‘I’ve got a great idea!!!’ What? ‘How about when you or we notice you need the loo we head straight there - that’s much quicker - and you get more time to play!!’ ‘Wouldn’t that be great!’ Yes!

It’s sometimes surprising that even quite young children can understand this kind of discussion. Then next time you notice the signs you can excitedly say ‘oooo looks like you need the loo. Let’s go quick so you can have that extra play time we talked about!’

Repeat the above as necessary. Make it a great ‘bonus’ each time he gets extra time. ‘Fantastic - look at the extra time you’ve got now to play!’ Help him get that intrinsic motivation to notice his internal signals that he needs the loo and why it’s better for him to go straight away.

Echo what everyone else says - don’t punish your child for toilet accidents, but you can certainly make the difference between getting it right and having an accident clear to them if you think they’re genuinely capable.

So every time they use toilet - lots of praise, sticker or sweetie bribe. Go over top how big boy they are now and how proud you are etc.

Accident - oh well never mind. Let’s go get changed, and help me clean up the floor here. And now we’ll put your clothes in the washing machine. Don’t mention the bribe or the praise etc.

Also yes don’t ask them if they need to go. Just tell them it’s time. I think some kids it does genuinely take a while to click through the whole process and going back to nappies is just going to slow it all down again

@Kanaloa

There’s no point punishing, it won’t help - and daycare shouldn’t be suggesting you do.

What you should be doing is using your common sense. If he often wets himself while playing 10 mins after you asked him if he needs to go then stop asking. Just say ‘Jack, toilet time please.’ Then make him go and try regularly, until he gets into the habit of going independently.

I would also make sure getting changed is much more boring and awkward than going to the toilet. So put down all toys, go to the bathroom, and have him take off all his own clothes and wipe himself down etc, then sit on the toilet to make sure he doesn’t need to go again, then wash up the floor if he’s peed on that. Just basically make it so boring that it becomes easier and better for him to go when he’s asked.

V sensible advice

Ours got a chocolate button if she did a wee or poo in her potty, we found that rewarding her made it more interesting. I wouldn't punish a child who is just learning something.

Don’t punish. Don’t ask him. If you can see he needs the toilet then say in a breezy voice ‘oh it looks like you need the toilet come on then’ so he gets used to going when he feels like he needs to go

In my experience it can take weeks/months for them to admit to needing to go when asked so I wouldn’t rely on that

No tv has no relation to making clothes dirty
Gervais involved with getting the dirty clothes putting them in the machine etc
So he sees that wetting dirty ing immediately takes him away from playing because he has to spend time getting changed cleaning rinsing pants
A consequence three hours later is pointless

Absolutely no punishing, but I did a square of chocolate reward which worked a treat, literally!

Show him the chocolate beforehand.
Buy several big bars and tell him he gets a square every time he does the biz.

Sometimes strong visualisations help children.

This really worked with mine.
Instantaneous stopping of a accidents.
Within a couple of days they had the good habit and we were on our way.

As one of the only posters on this thread that has said to try 'punishing' (and by punishing i do NOT mean shouting or shaming or anything more than a bit of a lecture and disapproval) Don't other posters think there is some merit over getting potty training over and done with. With my one child who was definitely ready but unwilling to use the toilet if I'd left it to him he would have carried on in nappies for ages. Isn't that more likely to cause issues around using the toilet than cracking on with it. My kids all liked using the toilet. They felt more grown up and independent anc im sure they must have felt more comfortable, Dragging out wearing nappies for months and months seems meaner than dealing with it more decisively when they are ready.

I know it very much depends on the kid and how good their control is. It wasn't a hard decision with my lad as I knew he was just being lazy.

I've known plenty of kids who would have accidents until they were older and obviously it would be awful to make them feel they were doing something wrong.

Yabu to say supper and diaper in the same sentence.

@Dancingmoonlight

Yabu to say supper and diaper in the same sentence.

What an unhelpful dick you are. Are you aware that people use different words for different things?

@SierpinskiSquare

As one of the only posters on this thread that has said to try 'punishing' (and by punishing i do NOT mean shouting or shaming or anything more than a bit of a lecture and disapproval) Don't other posters think there is some merit over getting potty training over and done with. With my one child who was definitely ready but unwilling to use the toilet if I'd left it to him he would have carried on in nappies for ages. Isn't that more likely to cause issues around using the toilet than cracking on with it. My kids all liked using the toilet. They felt more grown up and independent anc im sure they must have felt more comfortable, Dragging out wearing nappies for months and months seems meaner than dealing with it more decisively when they are ready. I know it very much depends on the kid and how good their control is. It wasn't a hard decision with my lad as I knew he was just being lazy. I've known plenty of kids who would have accidents until they were older and obviously it would be awful to make them feel they were doing something wrong.

Nobody who has said punishment won’t work is saying ‘don’t punish him just let him stay in nappies for ever and ever as long as he likes.’

Almost everyone has given good suggestions to ‘get potty training over with.’ Negativity and punishment won’t work any faster than encouragement and preventative measures. Your kids liking using the toilet isn’t really relevant to punishing a child for not doing it correctly - in op’s case regular toilet visits and encouragement is likely to work a lot faster than lectures.

Alright, sounds like my hesitation was well founded. I will not be giving time outs for accidents. I will continue to change him slowly and get him to sit on the toilet after accidents (we were doing that already), and I might keep him home another day this week for some additional one-on-one time (it’s hard to keep totally on top of him with 2 other young DCs). Ughhhh this is so much harder than when my DD potty trained in 2 days at 27 months! I had no idea what other parents were complaining about hahaha.

I love my DGM dearly but she has some strong and misplaced parenting ideas sometimes. She’s very anti-breastfeeding, feels very uncomfortable with me having a career, always wanted me to feed my babies on a 4-hour schedule, is horrified that we didn’t leave our kids to cry it out at 3 months old, finds it weird that my DH is an equal parent… I’ll add “potty training with punishment” into my growing “advice to ignore” column!

Oh dear. Sounds like she’s read the 1950s parenting manual or something! I think quite often parents tend to presume we will follow all the parenting advice they did without realising that best practice has moved on. It’s not an insult to how they did it, just different now. But if her other advice involves losing your job, not meeting their needs as babies, and their dad not parenting then it seems like a good idea to employ the ‘smile and ignore’ to her parenting advice!

Never punish a child for accidents, he isn't ready and that is that.

I had all mine in cloth nappies and EC'd them (offer potty since birth) DC1 was out of nappies by 9 months, DC3 was out of nappies at 18 months. Yet DC2 and DC4 were both nearly 4yo before they were fully potty trained!

I treated them all the same but they were not all ready at the same time.

Just keep him in pull ups, he will be ready when he is ready.

Maybe consider buying some cloth pullups, so he can go to the potty when he wants and still has the back up to avoid having to change all his clothes after an accident. Easy to wash and gets him use to the feel of cloth underwear.

Are you rewarding him when he does use the potty? At his age - he has learnt to not be bothered by sitting wet or dirty and it becomes more difficult to train.

Lots of lots of rewards/stickers and treats on using the potty to reinforce it's good.

I would say he has to go and try when prompted rather than allowed to continue to play.

Can see both sides regarding time out or not. Tough one.

Bribe, yes. Punish, no. It takes 1 minute to clean up a wee on the floor. It takes years (and years) to unpick ingrained toileting issues.

Fwiw there's not much point asking if he needs the loo all the time. It comes across as anxious, and the child soon starts ignoring you.

Either properly micro manage (ie take him and put him on the potty every 1.5 hrs) or leave him to it.