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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to reduce her hours

76 replies

BycullahRoad · 13/04/2022 06:58

Name changed as do not want to be too outing.

I run a very very small business and I have just one employee. I have employed her on a part time basis for over 10 years. She is someone to talk to for advice, she covers for me if I am unavailable, and is frankly better at certain things that I am. Having her around means I can take holidays and have sick days etc. We have been a good team. I think she appreciates the job, as it has provided a steady income for her and she is able to arrange the work around the school run etc.

As I am getting older, my business is declining, and with efficiencies that have been made, frankly there are not the hours that need doing anymore. With recent minimum wage increases I can no longer afford to keep her on the hours she is doing, but I don't want to lose her. A few months ago I suggested that she reduces her hours and get another part time job elsewhere. She says she does not want to as she would lose her tax credits. She has said that if I reduce her hours she will have to leave. Just discussing this has created friction between us.

I'm in a dilemma, I don't want to lose her, because then I would have to recruit and train a new person, but I can't afford to keep her on the hours she is being paid for. Suggestions anyone?

OP posts:
MrsLargeEmbodied · 13/04/2022 09:36

i think you might have to let her go and have her back on a temporary basis to cover your holiday?

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 13/04/2022 09:42

i think you might have to let her go and have her back on a temporary basis to cover your holiday?

If she would actually want that, once she's found another job. There seems to be a considerable amount of of decision-making on here as to her employment possibilities, without even accounting for what she herself might prefer or find feasible.

It's not like deciding whether you want to move your furniture around to maximise its usefulness and convenience - she is a human being.

OfstedOffred · 13/04/2022 09:51

They may both be on nmw because in reality it could be a very simple business- dog walking, cleaning, dressmaking etc.

It's not OPs issue what her employee is paid if that employee is happy with it & not requesting more. The employee can leave if she wants more. People often accept low pay where it comes with flexibility/pleasant working conditions.

OP, you are not obliged to fund her perfect 16 hour job to entitle her to benefits.

OfstedOffred · 13/04/2022 09:52

it is very hard to find an 8 hour job

Maybe she could find one offering more hours. 16 hours is the minimum to get tax credits, it doesnt mean you have to work as little as possible to get them.

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 10:00

If you reduce her hours you are making her redundant for those hours- unless the contract is flexible in some way. So not much cost saving to full redundancy probably.

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 10:10

A few months ago I suggested that she reduces her hours and get another part time job elsewhere.

You do know that you probably have to pay her redundancy for that?

sunshinesupermum · 13/04/2022 10:14

She must realise herself that the business is failing? I understand you want to help by giving her options but the sensible thing seems to be to wind the business up now and pay her redundancy. Perhaps Citizens Advice Burea has some advice for you?

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 13/04/2022 10:24

Not really. It’s doing nothing wrong legally, but morally, working as little as you can to maximise the amount of benefits you can claim is no different to maximising the loopholes you use minimise your tax bill.

But nobody here has any idea as to why she's choosing that option. She may have very good reasons.

SpiderinaWingMirror · 13/04/2022 10:25

I think it's time to stop trying to solve the issue. Just say you are retiring and close the business. Pay her redundancy according to the legal requirements.

Nanny0gg · 13/04/2022 10:26

Is it redundancy if the job is still there, just on fewer hours?

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 13/04/2022 10:29

@IDontHaveAnOutingHobby

A few months ago I suggested that she reduces her hours and get another part time job elsewhere.

You do know that you probably have to pay her redundancy for that?

No she wouldn't have to pay redundancy if she asks her employee to reduce her hours.
girlmom21 · 13/04/2022 10:35

OP if you reduce her hours, unless she agrees to it you still have to pay her her original salary.

BungleandGeorge · 13/04/2022 10:35

Having 2 jobs is much more complex than having one as you have to co-ordinate holiday, hours, paying tax, training, covering for others etc. Second employer isn’t bothered about trying to fit around first and wants 100% from their employer. It’s usually much easier to have one which is what she’s said to you. If you want to be fair I’d give her a long notice period

chesirecat99 · 13/04/2022 10:40

[quote BycullahRoad]@girlmom21, no my business probably is not viable for much longer, but I am close to retirement age. Not trying to fudge the system but I was wondering if I kept her on for 8 hours a week, would she be able to get another job elsewhere for 8 hours and still get her tax credits?[/quote]
Yes, she can do that under the tax credit system but tax credits are being phased out. It could be that she would be moved to universal credit if she changes job.

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 10:40

@Nanny0gg

Is it redundancy if the job is still there, just on fewer hours?
Yes. Depending on the contract You are making the hours redundant and so redundancy is due

From citizens advice

If you do not agree to this reduction there are a number of options available to you:

You may make a complaint to the Workplace Relations Commission under the Industrial Relations Acts 1969-2015. Under this legislation, if your employer objects to a hearing by a Workplace Relations Commission adjudicator, you would have to refer the matter to the Labour Court.

If you say you wish to continue working as before your employer may decide to make you redundant. If you are dismissed in this way, you may qualify to bring a claim for unfair dismissal. Unless your employer can prove there was a genuine redundancy situation and that fair procedures were followed, this dismissal may be found to be unfair.

If your employer insists on reducing your working hours or pay you may also consider that you have no choice but to resign and claim constructive dismissal because your employer has breached the terms of your contract. Before you do this, you should always seek detailed legal advice as proving constructive dismissal can often be difficult.
If you think that a reduction in your pay or your working hours is a breach of your employment contract you could seek redress through the civil courts.

IDontHaveAnOutingHobby · 13/04/2022 10:40

@girlmom21

OP if you reduce her hours, unless she agrees to it you still have to pay her her original salary.
or make that part of her role redundant and pay compensation
WildCoasts · 13/04/2022 10:55

She may sense her job is insecure now and be looking elsewhere anyway.

Is another option to do a restructure? You reduce your hours and she keeps hers or increases them? If you're nearing retirement anyway, maybe that would work for both of you?

WhatATimeToBeAlive · 13/04/2022 10:57

I would offer her a Settlement Agreement, as the job is not actually being made redundant. Then you can add a sweetener into the deal so hopefully you can part on good terms. Her future benefits is not your problem. Maybe she can do more hours in another job rather than claim benefits. There are 30 hours in between school times.

AllOfUsAreDead · 13/04/2022 11:08

Think you may have to accept that your business won't last until you retire op unless you retire next year, then you might be lucky.

She may leave now anyway since you've brought it up. I would be looking for more work if I was her. What will you do then?

catndogslife · 13/04/2022 11:15

My understanding is that tax credits are being discontinued and claimants moved to UC.
www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk/tax-credits-customers/tax-credits-are-ending/

shiningstar2 · 13/04/2022 11:36

At the moment you and your employee have conflicting interests. You, quite naturally want to reduce her hours because you don't need and can't afford the hours she currently does. She, quite naturally wants to keep the hours because she can't afford to lose her benefits. You would save a few hours pay She would lose a few hours pay plus her benefits. I think you can only now offer the hours you need but don't get upset if she then looks for something else. I would think, from her point of few one part time job is easier to manage with a family than two. Also it could be very difficult for her to get another part time job with hours that fit around your hours. Getting holiday time at the same time for two jobs might also be problematic.

MinesATriple · 13/04/2022 11:40

I can see why keeping her on 8 hours would be the best result for you, but reducing her hours runs a substantial risk that she will feel forced to resign and find a different job for 2 days pw. If you can't rearrange the work to keep her hours up, what's your next best option and what is she likely to accept? Maybe cutting fewer hours, or paying her more per hour, or shifting her reduced hours into the evening or otherwise flexing round whatever other work she can find.

Maybe at the moment the "power" is balanced, but it sounds like you need her more than she needs an 8 hour a week job. It's a question of how to make it worth her while.

It might not be awful if she goes and gets a job that gives her the hours she needs, and you have to train someone new up. Someone new could also be good at it. It's a bit of a pain for you but bluntly, she doesn't owe it to you to make her own life complicated, just to save you the hassle.

Nospringchix · 13/04/2022 11:48

@BycullahRoad

Can anyone help me in relation to tax credits so that I can help her with that particular issue? Apparently you need a payslip stating that you work 16 hours a week. Would two jobs of 8 hours a week also count?
Yes, I think two jobs of 8 hours would have been acceptable for tax credits, however this would be a change 9f circumstances I she did this which would lead to her having to claim UC instead.
RedHelenB · 13/04/2022 17:55

It wouldn't trigger a change to UC as she would Still be eligible for CTC .

Ninjaexpress · 13/04/2022 18:11

Tax credits are being phased out and people on them transferred to UC by I think it's 2024. There are announcements running on the radio.