Surely there's benefits for people like me

[Bpdqueen]

I'm a single adult, kids moved out I work 30 hrs a week my take home pay after tax and NI is around £1000 4 weekly. My mortgage payments are £450 a month. Leaving £550 a month for all bills food petrol the only benefit I get is 25% of council tax which brings ct down to £100ish a month. I used to get working tax credit but I apparently earn to much I have lots of medical conditions but I don't think anything enough to claim pip as I'm Mobile and capable of looking after myself and working. Am I missing something or am I expected to be able to live on this.
Aibu - yes that's more than enough to live on.
Yanbu - no you should be entitled to help on such a low income

@MarriedThreeChildren I think you haven't read my posts if you imagine I don't know what PIP is. I literally said that I have an indefinite award of both components at the higher rate, and was given that award without an assessment (ie based on just the form and evidence). That really sounds to you like someone who doesn't know what it is...?

@Innocenta I think it sounds like you have an extraordinary case with clearly very severe circumstances and its absolutely brilliant and amazing that they have accepted your application and given an indefinite award. That's truly wonderful for you.

As such though, you've no idea how hard it is for people with different conditions, especially mental health conditions, who are forced to renew every 2yrs which is more like every 12 months after they have had to go through the process of interview, mandatory reconsideration and tribunal to get the award they refused you in the first place. You've obviously not had to deal with the lies, deceit, underhand tactics they use to undermine people applying for PIP.

I'm pleased for you, but your experience is far and away the exception and not the rule.

@SilverHairedCat Thank you for your reply I was really upset by the other person saying I don't know what PIP is, when it's my main income and of course, in order to receive it I did have to go into detail about my health (or lack thereof). I just found that such a nasty thing to say to a claimant who obviously must be very unwell, you know? But I really appreciate the way you responded and I totally agree with you that I haven't personally experienced that awful treatment from the DWP. I did have assessments in the past (one for DLA, one for ESA), but was lucky to have only home visits, and assessors who were comparatively respectful of me.

Ironically I do have MH problems but we left them out of the PIP application because of knowing (in theory) how useless the DWP is with all MH stuff. So I'm not ignorant about it (and certainly not about MH struggles, I've been in treatment for 15 years ) but I fully take your point that people have a much harder time applying for mental health conditions. For what it's worth, I think the descriptors are awful, that many more people should get awards, and I support UBI anyway, so I'm definitely not coming to it from a POV of 'fewer people should get benefits' or anything like that.

I've known people who had problems with their applications relating to taking the 'worst day' approach, and I think that makes me particularly cautious and pessimistic.

Hi @Bpdqueen I have a similar problem.
I'm single & sadly childless at 45, live alone in my small 2 bedroom home which I bought when I was well and had a good career so luckily the mortgage is low just £350 a month.
But I can now only work part time (22.5 hours / 3 days a week) as I have Schizoaffective disorder and epilepsy; my medications make me drowsy & I get paranoid easily despite the anti psychotics which makes my working life difficult.

I work too many hours to get ESA / UC of any kind but I really get a lot of self worth from my job and don't want to cut any more hours. I earn approx £1k a month.
I currently don't have a lodger as I'm not well enough.

So with assistance from a local charity I've applied for a PIP renewal.
I originally got PiP for Mobility for the epilepsy since 2018ish on mandatory reconsideration which gave me an extra £250 a month but now my Renewal is due my psychiatrist & occupational therapist have said that I should see if I can get more PIP points for other activities which I do struggle with - mainly due to the negative symptoms of Schizoaffective disorder.

I do think you should apply for PIP - there are probably local disability charities who you can pay to help with the form, just like I found.
Just make sure you get plenty of evidence (as in reports about how you meet the criteria rather than descriptions of your illnesses).

You can also try applying separately for council tax benefit I believe.

Increasing hours is fine IF YOU CAN
You can't be managing your money properly, everyday we get told by the Troy MP's that they done really well in "helping" the low paid into a world of plenty......they certainly have for their mates.
For gods sake make your choice on your MP not on lies and promises of he future, (NI increase to pay for adult care in years to come and Brexit will give us hundreds of millions a day - from someone who has made a career of lying )make it on what they have done to you when in office. Sorry to hear of your plight, l really do feel for you, and all others at food banks (there's more food banks n the UK than McDonalds) and trying to get help from the six largest economy in the world. A disgrace

Can you not get working tax credits

@HammerToFall

Can you not get working tax credits

No -one has been able to make a new claim for tax credits for around the past 3 years or longer.

@Bpdqueen

I have borderline personality disorder, pots, hypothyroidism and cardiovascular disease so 30hrs is a struggle as it is I wouldn't be able to do more but when I looked into pip the questions where can you dress yourself and feed yourself ect which I can

You have to fill out the PIP questionnaire based on your worst day. PIP is awarded on how the condition affects you, not the condition you have. Citizens Advice could help you fill out the application to ensure you are not 'minimising' the effects on you. It is a normal human instinct to deny the true impact of your medical conditions. It's a survival mechanism.

For goodness sake - how many more people are going to tell op to fill out the form on a worst day?? You do not do this. You can describe a worst day but if you say you cannot walk 50m because you can't on a worst day ( which could happen twice a year) bu then on the day of the assessment they observe you walking 100m or more down the road to the assessment centre ( and yes they do watch people ) then quite honestly you are going to look like you have exaggerated from the start. It is really really poor advice to tell someone to fill out the form based on a worst day. By all means describe a worst day but explain how your conditions vary, how often a bad day is etc.

@jkrfan No, you do not fill it out based on your worst day. This is totally incorrect and irresponsible advice!

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form-pip/

[quote Innocenta]**@jkrfan* No, you do not* fill it out based on your worst day. This is totally incorrect and irresponsible advice! [/quote]
Not incorrect and not irresponsible. And not meant to convey the fact that every day is your worst day . I have advised on PIP for a disability charity since 2013 when it was introduced and have had a lot of success with applications, reconsiderations and appeals. You need to consider how you feel on your worst days and think about how often they occur. With PIP, it’s not about the fact that you have a particular disability - it’s about how it affects you on a daily basis and whether/how much it fluctuates, and that’s why you need to consider how you are on the days when you’re most affected. For every activity assessed you need to consider how much pain you are in before, during and afterwards, whether you could do the activity repeatedly as often as needed throughout the day and whether doing a particular activity would affect your ability to do something else. You need to consider whether you feel fatigued, whether you need to take painkillers before, during or afterwards, and whether you need an aid or appliance, or help from someone else to complete an activity. Your safety and regard to not worsening your condition is also into account. PIP is a very difficult benefit to claim successfully. Head over to the benefits and pensions forum on GN as I’ve posted a comprehensive guide to claiming several disability benefits, based on my experience.

@Babyroobs

For goodness sake - how many more people are going to tell op to fill out the form on a worst day?? You do not do this. You can describe a worst day but if you say you cannot walk 50m because you can't on a worst day ( which could happen twice a year) bu then on the day of the assessment they observe you walking 100m or more down the road to the assessment centre ( and yes they do watch people ) then quite honestly you are going to look like you have exaggerated from the start. It is really really poor advice to tell someone to fill out the form based on a worst day. By all means describe a worst day but explain how your conditions vary, how often a bad day is etc.

Mobility and care awards of PIP are not just based on how far you can walk or any other singular aspect. For each activity the assessor takes into account how well you can carry out the activity, how much pain you are in before, during and afterwards, whether you have to take pain killers in order to carry it out or afterwards, whether you need help or use an aid, etc. They have to consider whether doing any activity would make your condition worse - usually based on medical evidence - and whether you can do it repeatedly, reliably and in a timely manner. You are likely to be observed once you step onto DWP property and this will include how you walk from the waiting area to the assessment room (usually in excess of 20 metres) how you sit and stand and whether you move around easily or with difficulty - it’s called informal observation and will appear on the report, as will demeanour and any other relevant body language. It IS important to consider bad days and worst days because there is something called the 50% rule. If on bad days you are unable to carry out an activity and this applies for more than 50% of the time (usually 4 days a week or more) then you are considered unable to carry out that activity.

@Rosscameasdoody Yes, it is incorrect and irresponsible because people who see only this advice sometimes interpret it as "fill in the form as if your worst day is every day", which can lead to being accused of fraud. I never said anyone should ignore their worst days; that's a bad faith reading of my response and I think you know it.

[quote Innocenta]**@Rosscameasdoody* Yes, it is incorrect and irresponsible because people who see only* this advice sometimes interpret it as "fill in the form as if your worst day is every day", which can lead to being accused of fraud. I never said anyone should ignore their worst days; that's a bad faith reading of my response and I think you know it. [/quote]
I’ve been assisting with PIP applications for nine years and not once have I seen anyone try to fill in the form as if every day is their worst day. At no point did I say this is what you should do - and at no point did I misread your post or say you were advising people to ignore their worst days. I’m simply saying that the advice is to factor in your worst days because they do matter - especially if you have a condition which fluctuates because if that condition severely restricts your ability to carry out the assessed activities for more than 50% of the time, you will qualify. In my experience people tend to downplay the effects of their disability, not exaggerate them - especially with the more intimate and embarrassing details. Honesty is the best policy with PIP because it’s a very harsh assessment - attempts at exaggeration will usually be detected. No two people will be affected in exactly the same way even by the same disability and the very nature of the PIP assessment forces you to think more about the things you can’t do. A lot of people find that very difficult, when they’re trying to focus on the positive just to get through the day, so I’m more concerned with people who under report. I’m sorry if you took offence at my reply, it wasn’t intentional.

Tbh if you have ever tried to fill in those documents, it’s extremely hard because it forces you to look at yourself in ‘neutral eyes’.
In reality, people see themselves often even able to do more than they can actually do for the simple reason that accepting you can only I do very little is HARD.

Personally I like the idea of looking at worst days because it helps removing the rose tinted glasses about what you can do.

Do more hours or get a better job

I’d definitely consider a lodger.

I bought my first house on my own and it was tight. I put the word out at work and soon got someone.

I did an all inclusive price as to not Mrs around with bills and a kitty for things like toilet roll, fairy liquid etc

@MarriedThreeChildren

Tbh if you have ever tried to fill in those documents, it’s extremely hard because it forces you to look at yourself in ‘neutral eyes’. In reality, people see themselves often even able to do more than they can actually do for the simple reason that accepting you can only I do very little is HARD.

Personally I like the idea of looking at worst days because it helps removing the rose tinted glasses about what you can do.

This, thank you.

I'd definitely look into it, I know someone who has mental health issues but is perfectly able to work & chooses not to. She's not physically disabled but she gets PIP

@Peachy7

I'd definitely look into it, I know someone who has mental health issues but is perfectly able to work & chooses not to. She's not physically disabled but she gets PIP

It depends on what the mental health issue is and what treatment she gets for it. It’s perfectly possible to claim PIP for mental health issues but usually only if you have specialist input. And whether or not you can work has no bearing on PIP as it’s payable to help with the extra cost of living with a disability, not on your ability to work.

I'm really not sure why you're replying to me as if I don't understand the PIP process, @Rosscameasdoody. I received an indefinite award of both components at the higher rate, without any assessment beyond my form and medical evidence, so I think you can be confident I have a decent understanding of how it all works.

Do feel free to point out where I suggested that someone should not factor in their worst days. That's not actually what most people who focus on 'worst days' in their advice to applicants are suggesting.

You don’t fully understand the process because you didn't have an assessment face to face, with an assessor who quite possibly hasn’t the training or the experience to fully appreciate your condition and how it affects you. Your application, by your own admission was quite straightforward and you got the correct award because the DWP had enough information from your application form, backed up by appropriate medical evidence - I’m not suggesting that’s anything but great for you, but it’s absolutely not typical of most peoples’ experience of PIP. For most people, the face to face assessment IS the problem because the assessor has maybe misunderstood or misinterpreted something you’ve said or done. For example, even though driving ability isn’t directly assessed, claimants who can drive often find it hard to convince the assessor that they have difficulty with other activities because the assessor will use the skills needed to drive as a yardstick when assessing other things - very difficult to challenge. There is also something called ‘informal observation’. In other words the assessor watches you throughout the interview and if something in your demeanour, or the way in which you walk, or sit or move around even slightly contradicts something you’ve said on the application form, it can easily result in an inappropriate award. You haven’t faced any of these things but you’re advising people on what and what not to do when completing the form. And in actual fact, assessors can and do ask about how a claimant is on their worst days because, as I said upthread somewhere, it’s relevant to the cumulative effect. That’s all I’m saying. My apologies to the OP, as the thread seems to have veered off topic.

@Rosscameasdoody But the specific topic is filling in the form. I'm not claiming any expertise at all in the assessment. If you're suggesting that I don't know how to fill in the form effectively then I think the outcome of my application speaks for itself as to what a ridiculous suggestion that is. I have never, at any point in this thread (or elsewhere on MN, feel free to look) suggested that I have vast experience of face to face assessments.

I did’t say you didn’t fill in the form effectively - in fact I think I pointed out that the fact that you did, and had the evidence to support it is great. And I certainly didn’t suggest you were saying you have vast experience. And yes, it IS about how you fill in the form, and that’s my point. You DID post something to the effect that it’s incorrect and irresponsible to base the application form on your worst day, but you didn’t qualify it by saying that you should factor in bad days and your worst days - and that’s because without having faced an assessment there is no way you could know that claimants are likely to be asked just that. A lot of the questioning is around whether and how your condition fluctuates, how you are on bad days and describing how your condition limits you on your worst days.