Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

@Onionpatch

Whilst everyone is arguing about whether its well paid or easy, the reality is my son isnt being taught maths by a maths teacher

If, as a society, we want a well educated workforce we need to do something to attract, properly train and retain teachers and bickering that other jobs are paid less or are harder doesnt make people want to teach.
If a survey inducates workload is the thing making them leave then surely itscrwally easy to sort? What woukd reduce workload? Either more teachers so smaller classess or less tasks a teacher is meant to do. Which tasks that teachers do for governors/ofsted/government hoops, do they feel benefit pupils least or could be done more efficiently. I am sure they know.

I absolutely agree with this. The average person doesn’t give a shit about the working conditions of teachers (and why would they?) - until it starts impacting on their children’s education. And the solution is: money. Money for smaller classes, better resources, more SEN provision and so on.

@Hercisback

At no point did I say they all were.

So we're agreed that people go into teaching at different times and with different motivations. There doesn't appear to be any correlation between 'life stage when entering teaching' and 'effectiveness of teacher'.

So you would outright deny that teaching is seen as a fallback option for anyone?

@Piggywaspushed

Out of interest , what 'skillset' could an English graduate pick up before teaching that would make them a more suitable teacher? Other than an English degree.

Working with groups of children/teens - sports coaching, brownies, scouts etc.

@Viviennemary

Nearly all teachers I've known plan to quit. I would take it with a very large pinch of salt

Nearly all the teachers I've known HAVE quit.

So you would outright deny that teaching is seen as a fallback option for anyone?

No because I'm realistic.

I know more who have quit recently than in the previous decade.
What's worrying is the fact they're almost without exception really good teachers. Dedicated, lovely people who just couldn't carry on any longer.

One has gone to supply to fit in round her SEND child. Another is sort of teaching but works for a big charity going into schools. 4 have gone abroad to teach. Early retirement for others. 2 quit to open a specialist shop.

Right, so we can agree it is a fallback option for some.

I am a teacher who is planning to leave after maternity. The workload is ridiculous, the holidays do not make up for it. Last week, for example, was a 48 hour week despite binning off marking until the 'holidays'. This is the norm.

On top of that inclusion without provision make many lessons an absolute slog of exhaustion. You are battling some very high needs that can see chairs thrown, tables flipped, and violence.

I then see my partner working from home on more money with bonuses and a very clear and quick pay increase trajectory. My pay is frankly rubbish for what I do and the progression is slow.

I cannot wait to get out, and in my dept alone two experienced teachers have left teaching for good this year.

@SonicBroom

In ordinary times there would probably be a general strike over pay

The average classroom teacher earns what would be the equivalent of more than £55k gross in the private sector. We were discussing it on another thread. Teaching is not poorly paid.

I’m a teacher. I’m happy with my pay. If I could leave and do something else tomorrow then I would. The pay is fine. My mental health is in ribbons.

If a survey inducates workload is the thing making them leave then surely itscrwally easy to sort? What woukd reduce workload

That is the question the DfE should be asking.

This thread alone pretty much answers the question: why are teachers leaving the progression?

The nastiness, devaluing, lack of respect and more is one of the reasons many teachers have decided to call it quits, along with increasing workloads and unrealistic demands and expectations in the job.

Here is my plan:

Government

Listen to actual teachers, you may learn something
Stop dicking with the curriculum
Fund better; seriously stop being dicks
PGCE tuition fully refunded after 5 years teaching
Make the main scale progression results driven
Make results tracking simpler
Fund and train TA's much better; you'll find the behaviour improves

NQT

Don't be such lazy arses. Fill in a bloody application rather than go to an agency. When you're wondering where your department funding is remember 15% of your salary went to the agency you used because you were too lazy to apply via TES
ETC is there to support you. Stop moaning and crack on. You spent hardly anytime in the classroom the last two years, you need help.

Teachers

Accept that results need to be achieved and recorded
If you get to UPS3 and don't want more money that's your shout. TLR are there, but you will need to do more work. Your choice.

SLT
Don't recruit dicks
Don't be dicks, you may not realise you're a shit manager until you are one, but when you do ask for CPD to improve
Grow a spine and stop pandering to parents; your staff are teachers, not customer service representatives
Crack down on behaviour; you're in charge not the kids and their parents

Parents
Stop being dicks. Emailing your child's teacher directly to challenge minor infractions you remember as being a fucking pain when you were at school is being a dick.
Get your kids to do their homework, wear their uniform get them the stuff that's on the uniform list and stop being dicks.
Support the school and they can support your kids.

Kids
Sit down. Pen and book out. Look at the teacher and open your ears.
Stop being dicks. School's where you suck up 14 years of totally free education and experience and in exchange for simply participating and you might have a better life if you stop ducking about now.

I never understand what the government think parents want. I couldn't give a toss about the box ticking and endless admin crap - what is it adding? The poster who said she doesn't do this in Germany and her kids are doing better than in the UK! My DS1's teacher is an NQT and bloody fabulous. She knows how to motivate different children and I trust when she tells me how he is doing that she could do that without having to resort to endless forms and box ticking exercises. I'm at the more highly educated end I guess of parents, and honestly, I don't believe any of the endless paperwork adds much - just good quality teaching!

a lot of my sons teachers are leaving (Y7), it is a shame as they do not seem to have much continuity these days in terms of staff. He's already seen numerous faces and supplies, and the ones he has made lovely relationships with are leaving.

Behaviour is awful as the kids just know people don't stick around, and this is supposed to be a "good" comp which is always massively oversubscribed in this city. The head sent a newsletter out on Friday acknowledging all the disruption but put it down to covid and the cost of living. Yes to all of that, but the other issue is the high turnover of staff and constant supplies.

There's a lot of debate on here about when or how people become a teacher. It's immaterial. People can have 2/3 careers in their lifetime if they want to. Not all jobs work out as planned.

The issue is the socio/economic divide which widens learning gaps between peers, it's disengaged parents and it's a crappy government with little interest investing in education.

I am a TA, I hold a QTS but didn't want to teach when my 2nd was born. There's an amazing teacher in my class of year 5/6, tiny school, my poor DD7 has a teacher in the same school who is forever off and can't cope. The Job is mostly paperwork and stress.

Those of you crying "but it's no better in the other public professions" are damned right and a reason our job is so hard.

Not enough teachers? Hire unqualifieds.
Still not enough? Throw them all in one class and let the teachers deal with it.
Social workers leaving in droves? Let the teachers deal with it. If they can't manage this child that has a horrendous home life whilst still maintaining high levels of progress from the others, it's their fault. The form tutor can't keep the attendance of a school refuser above 95%, let's judge them for it.
Not enough money for appropriate numbers of staff? Cut the allocated timetable hours and 'encourage' staff to run revision classes for free by refusing them pay progression if a certain percentage don't get their predicted grades that they entered school with in year 7.
Not enough nurses/budget for school nurses or school councilors? Get the teachers and admin staff first aid trained and run wellbeing sessions in a morning.
Grades are slipping? Teacher's fault for not putting in enough intervention.
Mental health slipping? Teacher's fault for putting too much exam stress on.
Not enough money in the budget for SEN support? Let the teachers deal with it.

Our local primary school closed down earlier this year. It was deemed ofsted outstanding back in 2013 but since then there wasn't enough teachers to keep it open.

My absolutely amazing ect hasn't been able to get a job. Her interview feedback has been amazing and as a parent I would absolutely want her in front of my child. But too few teachers are accepting the unpaid and extra hours that come with mentoring so they've not been able to offer her the role. If this continues, then it doesn't even matter what our recruitment figures are like, if they are not then employable afterwards.

We need a complete overhaul of the teaching profession and ultimately it comes to funding. It's going to get worse now post-covid because teachers have had a taste of more flexible working patterns, not had to run extra unpaid provision or detentions, and that is mixed with picking up the pieces of kids not engaging with homelearning (and some sketchy provision tbf to some parents who I know worked insanely hard alongside a full time job!). Behaviour is worse than ever and the number of kids who fell through the net over lockdown and now need sen support but are just at the start of their diagnosis battle has also increased.

HM

Those aren't paid jobs jelly. The idea was that some postgraduate proper job would have made me somehow a better teacher. Despite the fact that I have been I'm the profession for 25 years so am clearly not actually the problem.

@100problems

Here is my plan:

Government

Listen to actual teachers, you may learn something
Stop dicking with the curriculum
Fund better; seriously stop being dicks
PGCE tuition fully refunded after 5 years teaching
Make the main scale progression results driven
Make results tracking simpler
Fund and train TA's much better; you'll find the behaviour improves

NQT

Don't be such lazy arses. Fill in a bloody application rather than go to an agency. When you're wondering where your department funding is remember 15% of your salary went to the agency you used because you were too lazy to apply via TES
ETC is there to support you. Stop moaning and crack on. You spent hardly anytime in the classroom the last two years, you need help.

Teachers

Accept that results need to be achieved and recorded
If you get to UPS3 and don't want more money that's your shout. TLR are there, but you will need to do more work. Your choice.

SLT
Don't recruit dicks
Don't be dicks, you may not realise you're a shit manager until you are one, but when you do ask for CPD to improve
Grow a spine and stop pandering to parents; your staff are teachers, not customer service representatives
Crack down on behaviour; you're in charge not the kids and their parents

Parents
Stop being dicks. Emailing your child's teacher directly to challenge minor infractions you remember as being a fucking pain when you were at school is being a dick.
Get your kids to do their homework, wear their uniform get them the stuff that's on the uniform list and stop being dicks.
Support the school and they can support your kids.

Kids
Sit down. Pen and book out. Look at the teacher and open your ears.
Stop being dicks. School's where you suck up 14 years of totally free education and experience and in exchange for simply participating and you might have a better life if you stop ducking about now.

🙌🏻

100problems, agree with lots of your list but hard disagree with this one

Make the main scale progression results driven

No no no. Main scale progression should reward the experience gained of having stuck with teaching for another year. We want teachers to stay, we need to reward them for it, not base pay progression on something mostly out of their control (or exactly in their control if they are the one making up the results).

I know several teachers who are planning to quit. The pandemic is to blame.

If things with covid settle down then maybe they will stay but the extra workload, hours and not being able to do anything right has really taken it’s toll.

I am leaving this year as I worked out I get less than minimum wage when I add up all of my hours.

I am planning to become a TA as I do love being in the classroom but if that doesn’t work out I’ll go back to working in ASDA or somewhere.

not being able to do anything right

I have found this tough. The relentless judge from the mainstream media, politicians, on social media, etc - just no escape when you are trying SO HARD to get it right.

Think it has broken a lot of people.

@noblegiraffe

100problems, agree with lots of your list but hard disagree with this one

Make the main scale progression results driven

No no no. Main scale progression should reward the experience gained of having stuck with teaching for another year. We want teachers to stay, we need to reward them for it, not base pay progression on something mostly out of their control (or exactly in their control if they are the one making up the results).

I agree with noble. That's going to cause more problems than it would solve.

@OchreDandelion

not being able to do anything right

I have found this tough. The relentless judge from the mainstream media, politicians, on social media, etc - just no escape when you are trying SO HARD to get it right.

Think it has broken a lot of people.

This is the crux for me. Nothing is ever enough.