Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

@Awalkintime

I hope they do go. The English education system has needed a shake up for a long time, maybe this will force it.

@Wishihadanalgorithm

Was the Ed minister Nicky Morgan?

Yes it was. The reviews didn’t make a difference in the school I was teaching at. Did it for anyone else?

I think the teaching crisis is due to the fact that except for Estelle Morris, we have never had a Minister for Education who had been a teacher and understands the issues. Just because you have been to school doesn’t mean you understand education - thinking of Gove here.

I hear this, and whilst I don't disagree, the ministers are chosen from elected MPs. So unless you always made sure you had a former teacher, former nurse, former farmer, former judge etc as your MPs how could it ever be different?
The Ministers have their advisors from the departments don't they? Aren't those in the Department for Education supposed to be the experts? I admit I only have the loosest grasp on how this works.

Don't forget being in a union in some schools is very much discouraged ! Unions are trying but the gov aren't listening ! The tories value education so much for their own children they will pay £1000s a term but don't care about your children's education one bit ! Parents should be annoyed at the gov about how much they are cutting corners in education. Instead the focus is typically on the teachers being moaney and having long holidays !

I’m not surprised that this is a national problem.
We have many young staff and ECTs where I work. 3 atm in my department of 10. We work hard with them, nurture them, they stay in the profession 4 or 5 years then leave to better paid and respected jobs.
It all feels such a waste.
To those who say that those unhappy but more experienced staff should just leave-who’s going to be there to train and support the new recruits? To be in positions of responsibility? To write curriculum, support behaviour, be the ‘safe pair of hands’ classes can be handed to at the drop of a hat?
Such a worry.

For those in education or teachers leaving would you consider standing to become an MP? If you know any that have quit or about ti would they. How about civil service department for education?

In the past I would have suggested would they become a councillor or work in the council. Not sure what the equivalent now would be with Academies.

I'm a teacher. We had a new qualified teacher start in September, she couldn't do it. She couldn't believe the workload each night and after failing her first term she dropped out. Then a supply teacher arrived. Lasted 3 weeks-didnt want longterm due to the data/admin etc so left . School desperately recruiting.
If existing teachers leave the problem will be filling the places,the training isn't realistic and many dont realise the workload until they start working and then quickly drop out due to workload and abuse!

Maybe health and education should not be run by the government (or only loosely) but instead by experts in the field? How can education or health be run by people who have no experience in those areas? I mean, I’ve used the NHS but I am not a doctor!

I wonder if there should be compulsory term or two shadowing a teacher before starting pgce maybe on a grant so that those starting a degree in education or pgce know what they face before getting student loans and schools investing time training and person leave after weeks. Save them and tax payer fees and time and their stress failing when they actually start.

That might reduce the number of students. Do teachers think it might mean those that train would stay for longer?

@Horridcreature

I wonder if there should be compulsory term or two shadowing a teacher before starting pgce maybe on a grant so that those starting a degree in education or pgce know what they face before getting student loans and schools investing time training and person leave after weeks. Save them and tax payer fees and time and their stress failing when they actually start.

That might reduce the number of students. Do teachers think it might mean those that train would stay for longer?

No, better training would be a more constructive use of time. And a recruiting process that means teaching is seen as a desirable profession to those with choices, rather than something to fall into.

I think all people working for public services feel this way, not just teacher. Look at how many want to leave nursing and paramedic services. The government do not really respect these people and are happy to make things unsustainable as they can get their friends in to save the day on a high paying contract (and then then just make things much more inefficient and more people leave). Have you not noticed that they all do very well out if chaos lately?

It is paid shit for what you have to put up with. That's why people leave. We need a government that are in touch with reality and appreciate what public sector workers do.

Sonic - do you happen to be a civil servant working in the education department? You seem very invested in the narrative that teachers are well paid and to be on TWO threads simultaneously during work hours is a bit of a red flag. Wouldn't want us to think that you are slacking off from that arduous desk job, right? I mean anyone working in the corporate world on £60k is killing themselves, right? BTW I work as a state school teacher and I was a qualified lawyer (I worked for a silver circle City firm for a number of years) then I was a City/ legal head hunter so I have perspective on both worlds.

😂😂 average classroom teacher on £55,000. Sorry, that's hilarious. Most classroom teachers will be in MPS which tops at £37,000. Even UPS is £42,000 max. Where on earth did this magical figure come from ????

@Ohwellnevermindthen

I think all people working for public services feel this way, not just teacher. Look at how many want to leave nursing and paramedic services. The government do not really respect these people and are happy to make things unsustainable as they can get their friends in to save the day on a high paying contract (and then then just make things much more inefficient and more people leave). Have you not noticed that they all do very well out if chaos lately?

It is paid shit for what you have to put up with. That's why people leave. We need a government that are in touch with reality and appreciate what public sector workers do.

Nurses are angels imo. But out of interest, and this is not criticism against nurses, doctors and paramedics etc, just a curiosity because I’ve never worked for the nhs so I’ve no idea how it works, every few weeks in a school teachers are subjected to a “book look” where slt go through the students books to check the standards are correct - presentation, work completed etc, and teachers are provided with feedback forms. They can and are marked down for using the wrong colour of pen for marking. Does similar happen to nurses and doctors etc? Is their paperwork and charts etc reviewed on a regular basis to make sure they conform to the correct standard - including correct pen usage, or are they just trusted that as well trained professionals they know what they are doing and there is more important work to be doing then wasting time on such ridiculousness? There is severe pressure amongst all public services for definite, nearly all are understaffed, underpaid and overworked.

Teachers love teaching. They wouldn’t be in the job if they didn’t - but they leave for the ridiculous levels of micromanagement because it is too overbearing. They are not allowed to just teach. They shouldn’t need observing once a term unless there is a form of concern like a complaint has been made. Where else do post-graduate professionals get observed so much? I never see another gp observing my gp to make sure he gives the correct advice, and definitely not 6 times a year

@Ohwellnevermindthen

Yes my mum has just retired from nursing and warned me against that path too. Thankless.

@Timeforausernamechange22

My mum spoke a lot about the danger of your nursing pin being removed from you for the slightest of errors, never feeling secure enough that you delivered the best care and always worrying about the care you delivered (the pin issue again). Many of her colleagues over the years did lose their nursing pins over the years so the accountability is very high.

She went on to manage nursing homes but the threat of CQC coming in and box ticking was relentless. She was a bloody great nurse but still felt like nothing was ever good enough.

Huge blame culture in the NHS.

I imagine that is including pensions contributions, which would easily add on an extra 25% of value to their wage.
Still I would make it more £45k then £55k 🤔

@Tulipblacksmith so similar then thank you. It’s awful after doing all these years of training and building up experience that you aren’t trusted to just get on with the job, and that everything you do needs to be justified and accounted for. That is what is going wrong in our public services

@Horridcreature

I wonder if there should be compulsory term or two shadowing a teacher before starting pgce maybe on a grant so that those starting a degree in education or pgce know what they face before getting student loans and schools investing time training and person leave after weeks. Save them and tax payer fees and time and their stress failing when they actually start.

That might reduce the number of students. Do teachers think it might mean those that train would stay for longer?

This would be a great idea - except training providers are no longer allowed to require any experience from applicants.

All depends on the survey question plus it's all very well saying you want to quit, a whole different thing actually quitting. Two teachers I know quit then returned to teaching less two years later because it turns out we work hard in other jobs too and only get 4 or 5 weeks off a year.

@Timeforausernamechange22

I imagine that is including pensions contributions, which would easily add on an extra 25% of value to their wage. Still I would make it more £45k then £55k 🤔

And then pro ratad up to account for teachers not working the full 47 weeks a year or whatever it is. 55k is probably the equivalent salary outside of education. I reckon that's where it comes from, maybe the poster can clarify.

All those people going 'oh teachers don't actually quit though, or quit and return' - the teacher vacancy figures posted upthread don't look good though, do they? Or the teacher recruitment figures.

There's an actual problem.

I have worked in both sectors and am now a teacher. Massively less stress than in the corporate world and long holidays. Most teachers haven’t worked outside education and have no idea of the reality of a job where you do absolutely work long hours but don’t have the holidays. There is also a tendency to assume that they could command a higher salary elsewhere but not a massive demand for embittered ex-teachers who want an easy life.

I would not recommend that anyone goes into teaching straight from university, but as as second or third carer is a very palatable alternative to the stresses of the corporate world.

@freebritknee

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

????? The unions don't employ teachers.