Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

Cheesecake - I think the difference is that I've never seen a thread on Mumsnet or article in the paper, discussing how bad it is working in the gaming industry. There are one or two people don't like their job, they leave, all good. No massive damage done to the gaming industry reputation and it's still a v appealing job to a lot of people. No major moaning going on, on a large collective scale. Just one or two people quietly leaving, as with any other job.

But day in day out, on Mumsnet and in the wider media, the one profession constantly discussing how awful their work life is, is teachers. It just does sometimes feel like they moan much more than everyone else and that they are saying (and I know they might not be saying this, but it just feels like they are).. they work harder than everyone else, have it a lot worse than everyone else, no-one understands their plight, and how hard done by they are. And it does seem like a lot of moaning when in reality, compared to a lot of people who are really struggling on the bread line, teachers do have a decent wage and job security (in that they r always in demand), and it's a pretty first world, middle class problem. And sometimes it just feels.like.yoi want to say 'shut up and stop with the moaning'..

@Bedsheets4knickers

I’ve worked as a support worker and you’re assisted living right?

--quietly snorts-

Nothing wrong with being a support worker in assisted living but it’s a damn site easier than dementia care. Jeez!! You admitted it yourself it’s just “a little bit of care”.

Anyway it’s not a competition but when you’re making it into one 😂

@MrsHamlet

No but My closest friend is a teacher and her work woes seem so minuscule. She's got no idea how the real working world is right now This "real working world" shit is nonsense. There are plenty of things I deal with in school that I don't share - some because I can't, others because people who don't do my job wouldn't understand. Every job has its own pressures. You don't know her woes and she doesn't know yours. It's not "real working world" versus "schooling with magical unicorns"

Nope she tells me all

@Femalewoman @Silverclocks absolutely this. Many teachers wouldn't last a second outside a school.

A history teacher my husband trained with could barely spell. More worryingly for a history teacher they couldn't put various periods in chronological order...

His encounters with some SLTs would make your hair stand on end
I doubt it... I've worked with enough!
I suspect the issue is that he's applying against candidates with their teaching qualifications in English and it's not an obvious leap to make to employ someone trained in another subject.
I wish him luck... he just needs to find the right school.

@MrsHamlet

His encounters with some SLTs would make your hair stand on end I doubt it... I've worked with enough! I suspect the issue is that he's applying against candidates with their teaching qualifications in English and it's not an obvious leap to make to employ someone trained in another subject. I wish him luck... he just needs to find the right school.

Thank you. Yes we keep saying that. The current school wanted to keep him, told him he had a job, then told him they had no budget. It's the constant highs and lows that's exhausting- especially when he's working alongside teachers who don't give a toss...

Nope she tells me all
Either she does work in magical unicorn school or she's not telling you everything or she's wildly unprofessional.

Thank you. Yes we keep saying that. The current school wanted to keep him, told him he had a job, then told him they had no budget. It's the constant highs and lows that's exhausting- especially when he's working alongside teachers who don't give a toss...
The budget situation is shit. It makes everything much more difficult than it needs to be

Rather than going on strike, what would happen if all teachers collectively identifed what parts of their job a) were most unimportant and b) caused them to work in evenings and holidays and then (again collectively) stopped doing them for lack of time?

It would be a beautiful thing to see.

I have conversations with some friends who would think that I was "telling them all" when I'm giving the odd anecdote or minor moan about something. To tell all would take hours, be unprofessional and quite frankly boring.

I love my job, I enjoy being a teacher and don't want to leave (most of the time). However I can completely understand why people do leave, particularly ECTs, and this is worrying for the education sector, parents, and future students.

We need to make teaching more attractive. A 'fake it til you make it' approach isn't enough. We need actual change and better funding (not for wages, for all the shit schools have to deal with).

I think the real problem is people saying things like teachers don’t know the real world.

The stats are there for everyone to see. I don’t know why those complaining about teachers saying it how it is are doing so - I have done lots of jobs and I wouldn’t go back to teaching and I loved aspects of it - still I just don’t have the stamina to keep up. And I have yet to work with any SLT who are any good.

@Bedsheets4knickers

Yes sorry not a mortgage reduced but a better mortgage deal but really I think you are picking feathers either way

Better mortgage deal?!!! Bloody heck have I missed out on something. We went with nationwide and got the same rate as my brother in law who is a car salesman… if somewhere offers better rates show me at them please!

@TomPinch

Rather than going on strike, what would happen if all teachers collectively identifed what parts of their job a) were most unimportant and b) caused them to work in evenings and holidays and then (again collectively) stopped doing them for lack of time?

It would be a beautiful thing to see.

Not all teachers would. Those who did would likely find themselves on the end of a "support plan." Was there any point whatsoever in my copying and pasting a scheme of work from last year's format to this year's? No. It's an utterly pointless waste of time. However, I am not prepared to put myself or the team I lead in the firing line. I've seen what happens to those who are there.

@Bedsheets4knickers

Il get flamed for this but do the majority of teachers understand how it is to work in another environment?? I say this as most people I know suffer their job to pay the bills and that's without the 13 weeks holiday and mortgage reduction and not to bad pension .

Yes, the majority of teachers do understand what other work environments are like. That's why so many of them are leaving teaching.

@GooodMorning because the difference is, he was gone but there was enough people to take his place. Ultimately, it had no big impact. The reason you hear about teachers so much is because fewer people are taking their places.
I have never met a teacher complain about their pay or think they have it worse than anyone else. But you know how when you are raising an older toddler, you have to teach them in a child friendly manner that if they treat people like shite, people won't want to play with them? Well we are saying we don't want to play anymore and that's not because we are workshy, it's because we have boundaries.
I worked in hospitality for a while and that was horrendous. People always joke about what a crappy sector that is to work in - would you give the same vitriol to someone leaving hospitality? None of those awful customers had my email address to continue. When I left for the evening, I was done. If I had to work overtime e.g. for a wedding, I was asked and paid. There were loads of pros of that job like the tips, fairly decent pay, no one wants to work in hospitality so my job was guaranteed for as long as the business was going etc. Does that mean I should have stayed in it forever and ever and never get upset? What was worse, the time someone threw a glass of urine over me because he wanted to be served by a white waitress, or the time a 13 year old punched me in my pregnant stomach and caused a miscarriage?
I'm not an idiot, I know other jobs also have crappy aspects. I also know my job has benefits otherwise I would have left years ago. But people leave sectors. The only reason people don't like ameliorating the working conditions of teachers is because of some pent-up hatred towards teachers based on their own experiences of school.
Nurses or doctors leave, it's the NHS. Teachers leave, it's their fault for not appreciating what they have. What a joke.

@GooodMorning

Cheesecake - I think the difference is that I've never seen a thread on Mumsnet or article in the paper, discussing how bad it is working in the gaming industry. There are one or two people don't like their job, they leave, all good. No massive damage done to the gaming industry reputation and it's still a v appealing job to a lot of people. No major moaning going on, on a large collective scale. Just one or two people quietly leaving, as with any other job.

But day in day out, on Mumsnet and in the wider media, the one profession constantly discussing how awful their work life is, is teachers. It just does sometimes feel like they moan much more than everyone else and that they are saying (and I know they might not be saying this, but it just feels like they are).. they work harder than everyone else, have it a lot worse than everyone else, no-one understands their plight, and how hard done by they are. And it does seem like a lot of moaning when in reality, compared to a lot of people who are really struggling on the bread line, teachers do have a decent wage and job security (in that they r always in demand), and it's a pretty first world, middle class problem. And sometimes it just feels.like.yoi want to say 'shut up and stop with the moaning'..

But that’s the exact issue. There is NO job security. When you hit UPS you become ‘expensive’ this is year 7 of teaching (and that assuming your school allows you to reach UPS) anyway, you then become the teacher to axe… there are countless union cases currently dealing with UPS teachers being pushed out - UPS starts at about £36,000 but a trainee is £24,000 approx so senior management save significant amounts if they can cut out a few UPS teachers per year assuming a typical school has approx 80 teachers.

It’s an odd profession where being experienced actually makes you less desirable. In fact many teaching job adverts only state MPS and won’t even interview a UPS teacher.

@CheesecakeAddict that's utterly appalling. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Sadly, I'm not as shocked as I should be.

I think most of the myths on here come from people's own experiences, viewed through the lens of being a child, 20 or more years ago.

Dh has lived a teacher's life vicariously, for 20 or so years. Doesn't stop him banging on to the kids about what school used to be like (in his case, 30+ years ago). It's irrelevant.

There is no job security. You're at the mercy of whatever politics are in play at your particular school. I've seen it over and over again. You get good results? Ah, but that lesson was not to my liking. And while we're at it, a parent complained last week. And you shook your head at something I said in staff meeting. And you're on ups3 but still 20 years off retirement. I think you need a 6 week support plan, with the possibility of competency proceedings at the end of it if we're not happy. But enjoy your weekend.

And what is this reduced mortgage bollocks? I can't even get a reduction on the 10000 pens I buy every term.

DW taught in English schools in the late 90s. She got held up against the wall and furniture thrown at her. Nothing done about these assaults - school didn't care - just part of the job.

Teachers weren't (and I'm guessing still aren't) allowed the basic safety at work that just about every other occupation takes entirely for grated.

If she'd kneed the kid in the balls (as under self-defence she'd be entitled to) no doubt she'd have been disciplined.

Disgusting.

I've worked with teachers who've been planning to quit for the last 20 years. The reality is the salary is nowhere near as bad as they think it is, when they start looking for alternative work.

I've been a teacher for over 25 years. I've rarely heard teachers complain about the pay. That's really not the problem. Is the pay (in the early years especially) a bit crap for what the job requires? Yes, but that's certainly not the reason why so many want to leave the profession.

I wish they would go, instead of just talking about it though. Staying and moaning/kidding themselves they're leaving is doing no one any good.

They are going. I don't know why you think that's good though. Unless you think that classes being left with endless cover supervisors due to a lack of teachers is a good thing. And you're the one kidding yourself if you think it's all late career teachers who want to leave. Plenty of new teachers can't hack it for more than a couple of years.

many rather arcane GCSE and A Level subjects are taught by technical 'non specialists' (eg classics, film, sociology)
Let’s hope the (teacher??) poster who doesn’t understand the meaning of ‘arcane’ is not snd English teacher!

Mysterious, obscure...understood by few...?

Still haven't told us what you teach jangolina.

[quote Chickenkatsu]@jangolinapitt are you on now teach? It looks really good.

nowteach.org.uk/the-team/[/quote]

No that bandwagon started just after I changed career. I did get the max bursary but the PGCE was not worth the money -really badly run and learned nothing useful on it. Was mutable the pile dining straight from uni didn’t know it was rubbish whereas those of us coming from outsides just played the game to get the ticket and then did get excellent practical ideas from union-run sessions.

@GooodMorning do you really think there's a recruitment and retention crisis because teachers are too moany, really?! Noone can be made to stay in teaching, or to become a teacher, they have to be persuaded, same as in any job. The situation we have at the moment is that the pay, terms and conditions of the job are unable to persuade enough teachers to stay. That's the long and short of it, and it's a situation that perpetuates the problem, as more leave, conditions worsen so even more want to leave. Teachers don't need to be "greateful they have a job", if they can get other jobs elsewhere. They may not even be paid as much, but you can see from the numerous such teachers on here that that's not always the most important factor. If your only answer is to tell teachers to stop moaning then and the problem will be solved, you're essentially accepting that the situation will not be improved, and will likely get worse.

Pay isn’t an issue for most teachers because they don’t go into it for the pay. In fact many opt for reduced hours (and less pay) if they can in order to improve their work/life balance (not me, I was a SP so needed to be FT).
It’s workload that’s the killer, constantly moving goalposts, inadequate budgets and the mess that’s been made of inclusion with children in mainstream schools who absolutely shouldn’t be there and whose needs are not being met in any way. Teachers and support staff are being run ragged.