Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

@TizerorFizz

What most of this discussion proves is that SLT in some schools is woeful. There are schools where teachers enjoy their jobs. They even take decent holidays. They are valued as older/experienced members of staff. They even value being part time. However what clearly is an issue is how much more SLT could do if they truly understood how to manage people and schools. They might know something about the latter but little about the former.

I also think teachers in well run schools are mostly happy.

I think this is true. And an example of where experience of other industries is beneficial in the staff mix in a school. Its a skill set of its own to be a good manager.

I just want to add i don't think there's anything wrong with career teachers who go from uni to teaching!
I just think having managerial experience within the staff mix could be beneficial to all staff in the school.
Better management could make a huge difference to staff morale and therefore better teachers who don't leave!

I said it before, I would not be a teacher and would not encourage my children to do it.
Its not the pay, no. Its the job. For all the reasons discussed. And if you don't like it I think you get trapped as unlike other careers you aren't building up as many transferable skills and experience to easily get out!
Even nursing for example there are tons of different types of nursing you can go in to, or go into NHS management or non clinical role, or retrain as an allied health professional.
Not so easy for the disgruntled teacher.
I am concerned for the future of education but I fear it will limp along, not wholly failing, for a while longer, on the back of hard working teachers.

@Piggywaspushed

Hate to break it to you tortuga but that would make me leave teaching.

I agree. One the most rewarding parts of the job is planning a lesson you can't wait to teach and seeing the children enjoy it and learn lots.

[quote noblegiraffe]I think that’s less common generally in secondary.

Not according to the figures.

www.nasbtt.org.uk/john-howson-how-many-unqualified-teachers-are-there/[/quote]
I can’t see anything there about how many people are teaching classes without a degree, am I missing it?

I know two teachers who started unqualified with only A levels. They've taught a core subject whilst they studied for a degree in a related subject, then taught unqualified whilst they gained QTS.

Unless you happen to be involved in training staff, you wouldn't necessarily know.

No, true. I suppose I’ve noticed it in the sense that people can sometimes be a bit sniffy about (say) independent schools - ‘he/she isn’t even a qualified teacher’ but sometimes they are really well qualified, just don’t have QTS.

I do think there’s a difference between that and someone who (say) only has GCSEs/A levels and is grabbed to stand in front of the class because there’s no one else.

But this is a bit off topic, sorry!

I can’t see anything there about how many people are teaching classes without a degree, am I missing it?

You said 'without the necessary qualifications to teach'

So you don't think people should be qualified to teach, to teach.

I haven't read all the thread, but I have experienced the teaching in France.

There are significant differences, the main one being that the onus is on the children to learn.
Teachers are assessed, and given a mark out of 20. If they pass then that's it. They are deemed to be satisfactory teachers.

If the child then gets low marks, it's seen to be their fault, for not listening, not doing the work etc.

As a teacher I used to carry home dozens of books to be marked in my own time. When I got to France I saw that very little marking was done. The children had a test every six weeks, on paper, and that was marked.

I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but it must be less stressful.

I am talking about the system as I saw it about 10 years ago, so things might have changed since then.

It's not off topic really. Lots of people think that maintained state schools have to have teachers with QTS. They don't.
Both of these staff are good, to a point. But the lack of a degree in the subject and the lack of 120 days of training does show at times. Of course they'll improve with time, as we all do. They're in good teams so they'll get support - in schools without that, they really would struggle.

I think there is a difference between someone who has an MSc in chemistry teaching a class and a dinner lady with three GCSEs.

In the former example I don’t really care if they have done the PGCE or other training route or not.

@TortugaRumCakeQueen Your solution sounds so efficient and a perfect example of effective time management as well as financially beneficial. Trouble is you are looking at the issue as if schools were a business to be automated instead of places where children are taught, inspired, given the skills to be creative thinkers etc etc. Each year group that comes along will be a new set of people with differing personalities, needs, behaviours etc etc. The skill of a good teacher is planning and adapting and researching and making lessons meaningful to the thirty odd students. I'm sure you are well meaning in suggesting ideas.

In the former example I don’t really care if they have done the PGCE or other training route or not.

So you don't think learning how to teach, plan lessons, assess pupils, manage behaviour or anything like that should be necessary to rock up and start teaching an exam class?

Do you think there's nothing about teaching to learn? People just do it?

I think people learn on the job giraffe, yeah.

@manysummersago

I think people learn on the job giraffe, yeah.

There are on the job training routes - but you have to have prior experience to get on them. It's very hard to learn on the job without the time and support that a more traditional route offers.

Sorry, pressed send because DH was looming over me suddenly!

I think all the things you mention above are a learning process, not a finished result at the end of a year or however. To be honest, managing behaviour was something that maybe took me ten years to say I was good at. I was pretty shocking for maybe the first three - and that’s not including my PGCE.

I have known several people go down the Teach First route and some were bad and some were good and some were no better or worse than me in my NQT year. Just like any cohort.

I don't use other people's teaching resources (much - I did when I was starting out a bit) because I haven't got other people's students!

Besides, planning lessons is the part I enjoy!

@manysummersago

I think people learn on the job giraffe, yeah.

Do you think it is better for the children for someone to learn how to teach by being chucked in a classroom and seeing what happens, or by someone learning how to teach by reading up a bit about how to teach first, then being put in a classroom with someone experienced who checks their planning, observes their lessons and makes suggestions on how to improve?

@Piggywaspushed

Hate to break it to you tortuga but that would make me leave teaching.

I agree - one of the things I love about my school is that we have autonomy over how we teach. We're all very different individuals with different styles, but it really works.

Teach first isn't "on the job" really though. There's still plenty of mentoring expectation.
Assessment only or salaried school direct are for experienced candidates because they require you to have your own timetable and require little support.

@manysummersago

I think people learn on the job giraffe, yeah.

The problem with ‘learning on the job’ in teaching is the lack of time for learning, there is little time for reflection, you quickly develop a reputation among pupils as the ‘fair/strict/good/cool’ or whatever teacher and teenagers especially are unforgiven to a few poor early lessons. If you try out some thing different with a class who trust your ability and it doesn’t work they will forgive and move on but if they don’t already trust your ability then teaching them will be incredibly difficult. The current exam specs are so overly pact that there is no time for lost learning while someone finds their feet.

@GooodMorning I do remember why I joined the profession. The problem is, the other stuff was so bad that it significantly outweighed everything else. In the end it came down to basics - I need to sleep and spend time with my family and have a life outside of work. I need to feel safe and not be fearful of being attacked. If I don’t have those things then nothing else matters. Job security, love of teaching, fulfilment and desire to make a difference - those don’t outweigh personal safety and personal life. And yes, I don’t want to work for free - and it’s not being greedy, it’s having some self esteem and personal worth.

@manysummersago as somebody who has a lot to do with training new teachers, unfortunately I see so many who are oblivious to their own mistakes and whilst I agree that it's learning on the job, having a mentor for that first year helps you not make those mistakes again. I fired so many teachers over the years for things like paying students to behave, laughing and joining in when a student was being bullied, or failing to report safeguarding incidents. I have dealt with several arrogant trainees not recognising learning is not happening and adamant they taught well and their class failing their assessment was on the students. The list goes on. But I dread to think of what would have happened if they'd been allowed to continue. Highly intelligent people who did well at school do not always understand what it's like for other kids.

Il get flamed for this but do the majority of teachers understand how it is to work in another environment?? I say this as most people I know suffer their job to pay the bills and that's without the 13 weeks holiday and mortgage reduction and not to bad pension .

What mortgage reduction???