Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

Don't get me wrong, I think many teachers are great and do a good job. My son's teacher is good at her job, enthusiastic and doesn't moan about it constantly. Actually, most of the teachers at his school seem good.

But, I do hear a LOT of moaning from teachers (especially on Mumsnet). It's a good salary, child friendly holidays, and a secure job.

Most other professions don't moan as much and we all work hard. Many of us don't have the salary we want. That's life.

You know the salary, you know the workload involved. If you don't want that, don't join up or leave if already in it. I don't care if all the moany teachers leave. We'll get a new set of more enthusiastic ones fresh from uni and excited to start in the profession.

I'm so sick of the glorification of teachers ("they are all amazing, I couldn't do their job, they are incredible.. blah blah blah", the moaning of teachers, and their need for constant praise and recognition.

Just leave or get on with it like the rest of us.

I agree. It’s tone deaf to expect people to care about how difficult a teacher’s day is. Which is why we should be highlighting the educational consequences on children instead.

@Sherrystrull that is not unique to teaching.

We'll get a new set of more enthusiastic ones fresh from uni and excited to start in the profession

Except we won’t, and your kid is now being taught maths by someone not trained and unqualified to teach it.

[quote SonicBroom]@Sherrystrull that is not unique to teaching.[/quote]
Did I say it was?

I left teaching at the end of January after 16 years. I am in Scotland and know things are not so bad here as in England, but I think I was (am?) burn out after the past two years. I gave it my all during covid, going above and beyond and was rewarded with less support, harder classes and more responsibility that I didn’t ask for with absolutely no positive recognition given to my experience and dedication. SLT just took advantage of me.

I would say that as we move post covid, the education system has been exposed. There were already difficulties due to underfunding and the lack of support for mental and behavioural difficulties amongst children and now those problems are exacerbated - more children require support and there is scant support to go around. This impacts every child in the building - your child may be progressing academically and be lucky to enjoy good mental health, but in many classrooms such children are being handed their work and left to get on with it while all resources are diverted to support the growing number of pupils who cannot manage, either behaviourally or academically. This should not be the case - every child she be supported or stretched as required. Between summer and Christmas I could never sit with down and extend my top groups and there were no other staff to do so. I might have been able to make my peace with it, but the support was not even enough to adequately educate the high tariff children we had identified for support.

Of course, this a problem across the public sector as a whole (no surprise under a Tory government). My DH is retraining as a paramedic just now and while I support him on a personal level, I cannot understand why he wants to do this. The ambulance service have huge delays just now and I can’t understand why he is volunteering himself to do his very best but ultimately deliver a service which is far less than the public deserves. Trying to do so nearly broke me.

Lots of teachers "plan to quit" until they see the salaries and benefits available in other jobs. The grass is always greener until you actually make the jump and see what the terms and conditions in other jobs are like. I have lost count of the number of my friends who are teachers, they left for other jobs and then went back into teaching because it either worked better around their family life or they didnt want the employment uncertainty that there is in many careers.

And as far as the “enthusiastic young things” from university go, I am concerned about them too. I’m sure some will be fine, but we got two at my school this year. One was doing fine but left as she couldn’t believe the workload. The other is honestly hopeless - she had barely taught a lesson prior to her NQT due to the bizarre structure of the uni course and covid. There is no way she could know if teaching is for her as she had barely done any at uni. My sister has reported the same from nursing, there is usually a big drop out rate at uni when the students realise what’s actually involved in nursing, but this hasn’t happened over the last few years as they haven’t been out on placement so much and now she says they have newly qualified nurses who don’t want to do what the job actually involves.

@GooodMorning - but you have missed the fact that not enough teachers are training to replace the teachers who arent moaning and have just got another job like you suggest. my son doesnt have a maths teacher and is ' taught ' in a the hall with several other classes in different year groups by a cover supervisor. My son has also been in a primary class of 42 for two years.

If it was just teachers moaning on mn about their pay but staying and teaching there wouldnt be a recruitment and retention crisis that is actually impacting on lots of childrens futures. In fact lots of them arent moaning - they are proactively changing there lives. You also cant really describe people chosing not to train to teach in the first place and chosing to do something else instead as moaning and not enough are training to replace those leaving.

Lots of things arent unique to teaching - they dont need to be unique to teaching for it to impact on children. They just need people to not really care about solving it.

SonicBroom

And your narrative that teachers won't leave because they can't find equivalent benefits is wrong because that is exactly what is happening.

@MichaelAndEagle thanks for the explanation. @SonicBroom it's still misleading though to say that about teacher salaries, in that people will assume the salary for an average teacher is £55k, when it's really not. I don't know any teachers earning that, unless they are very high up in management.

GooodMorning

Just leave or get on with it like the rest of us.

That is exactly what is happening.

I'm so sick of the glorification of teachers

If you think that this is happening on MN (or anywhere) you have your eyes tightly closed.

@GooodMorning most teachers who moan don't moan to the parents, always put a bright face on for them and the pupils. I only realised how really tough it was in schools when I became a governor at my son's school. Still all wonderful and brilliant when I had my parent hat on, not so much when I had my governor hat on!

Your enthusiastic teacher could very well be on here discussing the problems in the education system and the pressures on teaching staff

"Don't get me wrong, I think many teachers are great and do a good job. My son's teacher is good at her job, enthusiastic and doesn't moan about it constantly. Actually, most of the teachers at his school seem good. But, I do hear a LOT of moaning from teachers (especially on Mumsnet)."
With the greatest respect, you have no IDEA whether your son's teacher moans about her job when she's not actually talking to you. I suspect lots of the teachers here on MN present to the parents/children in their schools as cheery and upbeat. It's called being professional.

"It's a good salary, child friendly holidays, and a secure job."
It's not a good salary - not if you live and work in the very expensive South, anyway.

"Most other professions don't moan as much and we all work hard."
That's quite the sweeping statement. "Most" other professions? We "all" work hard? Can you back that up?

"You know the salary, you know the workload involved. If you don't want that, don't join up or leave if already in it."
Be careful what you wish for.
"I don't care if all the moany teachers leave. We'll get a new set of more enthusiastic ones fresh from uni and excited to start in the profession."
As Noble has pointed out - the sad reality is that that is not happening and a horrifying proportion of new recruits leave in the first few years.

"I'm so sick of the glorification of teachers ("they are all amazing, I couldn't do their job, they are incredible.. blah blah blah", the moaning of teachers, and their need for constant praise and recognition."
You're nice aren't you? How many teachers do you actually KNOW in real life, who have a need for "constant praise and recognition?" And please bear in mind that those you perceive doing that her on the internet are probably just trying to defend themselves against the constant criticism and abuse we have always seen on MN, made worse by the pandemic.

"Just leave or get on with it like the rest of us."
Yep, as the thread title indicates, that is exactly what is happening. Don't forget to pop back in a year or two when your DC haven't got maths/science teachers and are in danger of duffing their GCSEs.

@GooodMorning how do you know your dc's teacher isn't moaning? They certainly aren't going to whinge to you.

I'm in a fortunate enough position to leave but I am generating multiple income streams to generate money. I am taking a risk, will work with less holiday and less security but the thought of continuing in teaching for another 25 years was not possible if I wanted to look after my own mental health and see more of my family. I was doing very well, leading a department and had fantastic results and feedback from work scrutinies, lesson obs and ofsted interviews. What was my reward? More unnecessary paper work, more marking and no financial reward.

@GooodMorning have you actually asked the teacher what their work/life balance is like, are they stressed, do they get support from their SLT/Trust (if an academy), do they have enough resources, do they have to provide some from their own pocket, do they have enough TA support for all the pupils in the class, how many times has the curriculum changed?

Apparently anyway we won't or shouldn't get a fresh batch straight from uni because this is A Bad Thing To Do.

@FrippEnos that’s not my narrative. I haven’t said it anywhere. Other people have.

@Covidwoes how would you suggest that the benefits are compared?

My school should be training an enthusiastic young maths teacher this term but isn’t because of a shortage of trainees. Despite the salary, pension, holidays, and £24k tax free bursary, they couldn’t fill the places on the course.

@Piggywaspushed

Apparently anyway we won't or shouldn't get a fresh batch straight from uni because this is A Bad Thing To Do.

@JangolinaPitt still hasn't explained why that is....

In the last three years, two of my friends (both in their late 30s) trained to be teachers. One of them left after two terms, the other lasted 18 months.

What this thread demonstrates really well, is what happened to them. Very few people actually know what teaching is like. Seeing it from the outside or basing it on your own school life, gives no indication at all of what it actually, especially the stuff that happens outside of the classroom. My friends thought they'd really like it, then found it was an entirely different job to the one they'd perceived. One had a corporate job that she went back to, the other moved to work for an NGO instead, for the 'people-y type' job that she'd hoped teaching would be, but without the massive amount of pressure and outside hours work.

Ooops, sorry for the typos etc. My new phone seems to randomly delete words.

Surely someone who has been in another job, and disliked that and then looks at being a teacher sin't necessarily going to be a good teacher, and isn't going to come with many extra benefits than a graduate who has gone straight into teaching

I left teaching after 7 years. Have never regretted it - the pressure on teachers is insane. It made me physically and mentally ill. I have worked in a variety of sectors in my life - charity sector, transport, heritage etc and have never done a job, before or since, that demands as much as teaching. It saps good, dedicated people. Teaching is such an important profession and the Government treats teachers like crap.

It's not a good salary - not if you live and work in the very expensive South, anyway

Yes it is. Look through the data I linked to on the other thread and you’ll see that, for example, the average classroom teacher in Tower Hamlets is actually on £44k. That’s hardly bad.