How many of us are Fronting??

[Nickersnackersnockers]

Fronting is a type of car insurance fraud where a more experienced driver claims to be the main driver of a car, when in fact they're not. People do this as a way to get cheaper car insurance, often for their children, or sometimes their partner.

I'm asking as I have friends who have unwittingly done this, and listed their child as a named driver when in fact they are the main driver. They had no idea it's illegal, and saved huge amounts of money.

I told them their insurance policy would be null and void if they are found to be fraudulent and they were horrified that they were breaking the law, changing it immediately. In one case they were saving hundreds of pounds.

It appears that that this practice is rife and the way that many people insure their vehicles. Most have no idea its against the law.

It made me wonder how common it actually is???

The reason it is criminal is down to your statutory obligation to insure against 3rd party liability. If you have got insurance by not truly representing the risk, both the person driving and the person arranging insurance could face charges.
It's quite simple. Have you accurately represented the risk to the insurer? If you have bought an extra car when your child passes their test, is it for them to drive and use in the main? If so, then you must insure it as that.
If you have several children who share a car, tell the insurer that and keep a record of it.
If you have always been a 2 car family and your new driver takes the car every now and then to visit friends, tell the insurer, that's fine for a named driver.
Given the liabilities that young drivers can accrue (which is why the insurance is expensive) you do not want to face that on your own. Yes, your insurer will pay the other party but will come to you to get it back. Remortgage? Go bankrupt? If you are lucky they will just put a charge on your house.

I am not surprised people do this. My son has a 2015 fiesta and the insurance was 900 a year when he passed his test at 18. He had a black box. Following year it was 875 with a black box. This year the same insurance company wanted 1000 with a black box. He has had no accidents, the black box feedback was excellent. So now with his no claims he has changed company and pays something around 700 I think. He still has a black box to keep the prices down, and travels between 10k and 12k a year. So no "reward" for the high starting costs of insurance as it has remained high for no apparent reason.

@Shinyandnew1

I will add to that, that when we tried to add DS to DH’s insurance (small low insurance bracket car), as a named driver last year, it was going to cost £2-3000. We decided to get the insurance in DS’s name with DH as a named driver which was ‘only’ £900!

I felt this was stupid as DH drove it far more often (to work) and DS only drove it in the evenings/weekends-it certainly wasn’t his car, but that’s the only way we could afford to do it.

I don’t know anyone who bought another car for their child-most are just trying to find the cheapest way to add them on their own car. But it is definitely the adult’s car - they use it for work.

If what you describe is ‘fronting’ then that would have cost us 3 times the price.

So you are fronting then.

Your son is the "main driver" and your husband is just a named driver. That made it cheaper for you. But that's a lie. And is illegal.

Your husband is the actual main driver. He should be named as such on the insurance.

If your husband gets in an accident going to work, the insurance company will realise that he uses if every work day. And your insurance will be invalid because you're fronting to get a cheaper deal.

Fronting just means that the main driver on your policy isnt actually the main driver. You've just dont it to make it cheaper. That's what you are currently doing.

@secretsqizzle

I have always done the opposite. Put my self as named driver and newly passed child as primary. Expensive for the first year but black box makes it doable .. and then once the first year is done it comes down rapidly if no claims .

But was the newly passed child actually the main driver?

If not, if you were the main driver, then what you did was illegal.

@DalarnaHorses

DD is on my insurance, I'm the main, she is learning. But we were told that once she has passed, only one of us can use the car for commuting, which is crazy as it means we can't share a car.

That's fairly standard. I had that clause when I was insured on the family car as a new driver in the 90s it was one of the reasons I was so keen to get my own car.

There's a lot of pedantry going on here and people seeming to make things deliberately difficult.

The insurance company doesn't care if you drive 6k miles a year and your DH does 7k but you're the main driver, assuming you are both a similar risk level. Because logically this amount will fluctuate annually and nobody would be surprised by that. The issue comes if your DH has only just passed his test, was previously banned etc and is driving the vehicle more often than you on a sustained and regular basis.

And it will only be the insurance companies who care. The police simply want to know that the driver behind the wheel at the time they check the insurance details is suitably insured, either on the vehicle or on their own policy.

I've voted YABU because I don't believe people don't know it's illegal. They're just banking on not having an accident I think. Of course they will get found out if they do, insurers aren't stupid.

@Shinyandnew1 well yes, of course that is fronting. And if either of them have an accident the insurer will likely find out and void the claim.

There's a reason putting the insurance the other way round was cheaper. But incredibly silly to think that insurers aren't wise to it. It's going to cost an awful lot more when a claim is refused, especially if there are other cars involved.

If insurance companies lose out, that’s fine with me.

PIL did this decades ago with DHs first car. When we got married and moved in together he put it in his name and his first year was about £4k at a time when mine was about £250. Since the petrol prices have gone up so much DH and I are using the same car (his) for all long journeys, including my commute so it would be hard to say who is the main driver on either. DSs car is in my name but he is the main driver on insurance and is actually the main driver. I have no idea what to do with that when he goes to university in September as he won’t be driving it at all during term time. Can it still be insured with him as the main driver and accrue no claims if he isn’t actually driving?

I know it is illegal and I haven’t done it for any of mine. I put the policy on their name and paid whatever it was for the small cars they had.

I wouldn’t intentionally break the law.

Never considered it. Once they passed I wanted them to have their own cars, their own insurance and it not involve me at all.

I know people who still do this despite the fact that they are fully aware it's illegal.

When DS1 bought his car 4yrs ago, a 2007 fiesta, it was insured in his name with DH as named driver. There was no black box and it cost £950. When DS1 went to uni he left the car here and DH nipped to the shops in it sometimes so it wasn't sitting unused.

When DS2 passed his test 2yrs ago we added him as a named driver on his brothers car as they share it when he's home from uni. DS1 now uses the car for his commute to work, DS2 still shares it when he's home but he's not gaining any NCD in his own right. The insurance on the fiesta is now down to £380 which is pretty good for 2 young drivers.

Me and the boys are all named drivers on DHs car so we can drive it if our own is unavailable.

When Dd insured his own car foe the first time this year he got credit for being a named driver for 4 years on ours

@Shinyandnew1
The reason for that is that insurers have their own views on which risks they want under each brand. If they have a book of business which is "nice area, nice car, middle aged, no convictions" They do not want to mess that up with teens as named drivers, hence the high price.
The same company may well have a specialist brand which competes in that space, so nice area, low risk car, parent as named driver, no convictions, black box they can fairly price that.
IMHO an insurer will only look at the situation if it appears the higher risk is not on the policy as the policyholder/named driver.

@LadyMacduff

It's so common that Pharrell made a song about it.

Nearly spat my tea out laughing at this. Excellent comment 10/10.

@Dontevenstart

If insurance companies lose out, that’s fine with me.

Who do you think is covering the cost?

Hint: it's not the insurance companies.

You can cut all sorts of corners with insurance and save money. Insurers very rarely check unless you need to make a claim. You can tell them your home insurers that your house has a burglar alarm and has never subsided, your health insurers that that you never smoke and are as fit as a fiddle. You'll save a few bob and can pretend to yourself that you're fully insured.

But if the house falls down and you get lung cancer, good luck!

Incidentally, even if your lies aren't related to any claim which you eventually make it makes no difference - your policy is still void if they find out. So if you lied about your house never subsiding but end up trying to claim on the insurance for a fire they can still decline to pay.

Also, make sure that if you use the car (or anyone does) for commuting you have the correct cover. Social, domestic and pleasure does not include commuting.

@Dontevenstart

If insurance companies lose out, that’s fine with me.

They don't! They're in the business of judging and pricing risk and ensuring that the premiums they take cover the risk plus a mark up for them. It just means that the cost gets wrongly allocated, premiums get mispriced and some people pay more then they otherwise would.

@auntyponsonby indeed!
The main benefit of insurance is peace of mind. Hopefully the worst will never happen but if it does, you have a policy that will take care of the financial hit. If you have not been honest, you are just throwing money away.
Example, I had a colleague who smoked every day. They told me that they had ticked non smoker when taking out their life assurance, how would they ever know? Medical records and autopsy was my response! They thought about it and conceded thar their doctor had asked them how many they smoked and had referred them to the stop smoking service.
They called their insurer and sure enough it was 20% more premium as a smoker but that worked out at as an extra tenner a month.

@SpiderinaWingMirror

Also, make sure that if you use the car (or anyone does) for commuting you have the correct cover. Social, domestic and pleasure does not include commuting.

And this can include voluntary work too. I'm retired, so took commuting off my insurance, but when I started doing some voluntary work at a kids club I phoned my insurers and they said that if I got paid travel expenses it counts as a job and I'd need commuter cover. If I was travelling between different locations on club business I'd need business cover. Also people often don't realise what counts as a modification you need to inform your insurers of. It isn't just obviously risk changing things like fitting a more powerful engine, you should inform them if you change anything from how the car left the factory - fit a towbar, change the radio etc. As a PP said, it's not only if it's directly relevant to a claim that matters. If you make a claim and they discover you've not disclosed something you may find yourself uninsured. When I made a claim I was quizzed about the towbar on my car (it was factory fitted actually so not an issue) even though it had no relevance whatsoever to the reason for the claim, - they were just looking for loopholes to try to avoid paying me. Now I phone up about everything that even crosses my mind might be relevant. Mostly they just make a note of it and there is no extra charge but I know that if I do make another claim they won't be able to say "you didn't inform us about X so you aren't covered".

What are the rules when you share a car 50/50 split?

@SpiderinaWingMirror

Also, make sure that if you use the car (or anyone does) for commuting you have the correct cover. Social, domestic and pleasure does not include commuting.

Also education, traveling to college/uni is considered commuting.