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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Useless cms

49 replies

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 12:03

Been split up from my ex for 5 years and in that time he has pretty much never paid any maintenance (well about 10 payments of £7 per week ) he doesn’t work or claim benefits and cms aren’t interested in pursuing anything and have never done anything about it. Every now and then he would go on benefits for a couple of weeks which is when I might get the odd payment, but as soon as they caught up with him he comes off them again. In the end I got frustrated with the whole thing and lack of payments or action from the cms that I ended up closing the case. So now he fully gets away without paying anything. Aibu to think it’s wrong that there are no consequences for not paying?
Cms never took any action in the 5 years. It seems that if you don’t want to pay maintenance then you don’t have to and nothing will be done about it.

OP posts:

Conway12345 · 09/04/2022 16:56

That is a tricky one. My understanding is that income from renting out rooms in your own house up to £7500 pa does not need to be declared to HMRC. Could be worth checking with an accountant. This could be why the CMS have not been able to help

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 19:22

It’s not his own house it’s HA but been told he is allowed to rent out rooms. It’s ridiculous. He told me he gets enough to not need to work.

OP posts:

TheSnowyOwl · 09/04/2022 19:27

CMS isn’t the issue here. Your ex is.

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 19:32

Of course cms is an issue, they don’t take any action for him not paying, isn’t that the whole point of them 🙄

OP posts:

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 19:34

In America they have their license taken off them, passport even prison. Here ...nothing. Why do they exist then? If all exes were willing to pay no one would ever have to go to them. They exist to “make” parents who won’t pay, pay.

OP posts:

coodawoodashooda · 09/04/2022 19:35

@TheSnowyOwl

CMS isn’t the issue here. Your ex is.

Cms is only necessary for the useless exes. If there were no useless exes then the cms would close.

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 19:41

I really don’t get that thought process, so what’s the point in them then? If all useless exes are the problem then why have the child maintenance service at all then? and say well it’s your exes fault he won’t pay, well here was me thinking they were there to enforce payments. 🤦🏻

OP posts:

coodawoodashooda · 09/04/2022 19:49

@AHungryCaterpillar

If only that was true.

DebussytoaDiscoBeat · 09/04/2022 19:56

They can only enforce payments is someone has a declared income, they're not there to investigate how or why someone is living allegedly without an income, surely that's down to HMRC.

But yes, it's disgraceful that NRPs can get away without paying a penny towards their DC.

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 19:57

Yes I’m just saying in other countries If you don’t pay there are consequences like in America...

OP posts:

winterchills · 09/04/2022 20:07

It's really awful but how can they take money off him if he isn't being paid? I also don't understand how he's getting through life with no job or benefits? How's he affording to live? He must be working cash in hand, I would try and find out then report him!

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 20:09

They could impose sanctions like other countries, otherwise there is no incentive to pay.

OP posts:

bloodynamechangethe3rd · 09/04/2022 20:20

@ClaymationHeartsStillBeat

of course YANBU. My ex didn't see why he would have to pay any cm as I had enough money to pay for them myself. Trying to explain that this is not how being a parent works was almost impossible.

My ex has this view, even as far as saying "but husband makes enough money that you don't need mine" no but I'd like to think you'd like to support your child. There is an end point though, she's got to 16 and they've just caught up with him to the tune of £350 a month. Including £230 a month back pay.

Anyfeckinusername · 09/04/2022 20:28

Errrgh… this thread doesn’t bode well for me… what do you all think?

My first payment was due last week. He underpaid it by 180 quid (he was about 40% below the due amount)

As per the literature posted to me it says to ask (if you can) if the payment has been late/attempt a resolution. I texted saying I’d received x and y was due. Got a very snooty reply along the lines of “I will not speak to you about this only the CMS” I said absolutely, was just reminding you. No problem.

Can’t wait til next week so I can report it as an official late payment. He is an emoloyee and salaried. After over three years of no child support I finally went to CMS.

So I will escalate to Collect and Pay. But reading this thread is it hopeless to expect the money? I thought they could threaten court, prison etc if unpaid, no??

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 20:41

Well according to some on this thread no we shouldn’t expect them to enforce it and if they don’t pay it’s not cms problem 🤷‍♀️🤦🏻 Sorry I hope someone else knows the answer. All I got from cms is “he could be living off a partner so we won’t do anything”

OP posts:

LGY1 · 09/04/2022 20:55

Apart from to positively skew their figures, why would they cancel arrears?

HopefulProcrastinator · 09/04/2022 21:01

CMS are toothless and useless.

Non resident parents should be expected to pay a legal minimum irrespective of proof of earnings (the low bar of what benefit claimants have to pay for example).

Failure to pay at least that amount should result in financial sanctions in the form of credit defaults and CCJs.

Let's not litter our prisons with feckless parents, but make it as difficult as possible for them to have a comfortable financial life if they can't be bothered to contribute to their children's lives.

I know it's not a perfect start to a solution, but it would be something more than CMS currently achieve.

mathanxiety · 09/04/2022 21:10

In the US county where I live, the state's attorney prosecutes deadbeat parents whose children end up receiving welfare.

The theory is that the taxpayer shouldn't be out of pocket just because someone didn't use contraception.

People can be subpoenaed and can be ordered by the court to pay up on pain of jail. Wages can be garnished. Welfare or disability benefits can be diverted. Assets can be seized. It can take time, but by and large the system works.

RandomMess · 09/04/2022 21:10

Well if your ex isn't paying income tax yet is earning then you report him to HMRC
🤷🏽‍♀️

Or is it divided income? Presumably even with them there is tax owed eventually!

Under CSA I successfully got money as "their lifestyle didn't match their declared income"

Wantubackforgood · 09/04/2022 21:17

My exh earned in excess of £300k a year -told the CMS he earned less than £7 a week so didn't have to pay and when my teenager went there for 6 weeks because I was trying to discipline him for bad behaviour at school .He asked me to give up claim for child benefit which I did in good faith and he lodged a claim against me .Needless to say they were straight into me as I was PAYE .

Hiphopboppertybop99 · 09/04/2022 21:24

@AHungryCaterpillar In your case the issue for CMS is that your ex is not PAYE so HMRC have no earnings information. If he is self employed, or taking cash in hand he has not declared any earnings to HMRC. What can they use to assess his payment and where do they take this from? He has to have some form of income - the sanctions you refer to would be possible if he had an amount to pay, but as he isn't expected to pay, ( according to CMS) why would they be sanctioning him?
The issue isn't their inability to pursue your ex, the issue is him, in avoiding his responsibility to support his kids.
Seeing as though he hasn't declared any earnings to HMRC, its highly unlikely he will have declared his rental income either, but you could ask them to double check this.

Original poster

AHungryCaterpillar · 09/04/2022 21:27

Well it’s often said on here that cm is a “legal requirement” I see it thread after thread about the same thing it’s a “legal requirement” yet it seems it is not.

OP posts:

Hiphopboppertybop99 · 09/04/2022 21:57

He also has a legal requirement to declare any earnings and / or income from property rental (if above threshold) to HMRC - but he doesn't.
I know it's not right, and I don't understand how he can live with himself for not supporting his children

GoblinClan87 · 21/07/2023 19:32

I’m a mum of two and I pay my ex partner Child Maintenance. My partner also pays his ex partner £300 a month. Collectively we pay nearly £650 a month before anything goes out which is the price of rent/mortgage. I am on £22000 a year after this deduction before tax and he is on £24000 a month. We cannot afford to live yet, these parents are both on full time wages while the kids are at school and their partners bring in full time wages. My ex’s new partner claims maintenance for her 4 kids so collectively they earn a full time wage before any wages come in. I personally find it disgusting how we can’t afford to live, treat or do anything with the kids on decent wages. We can’t buy a house because we live paychevk to pay check. These people literally laugh at our lives and I’m glad my kids return to their purchases palaces paid by our child maintenance and their full time incomes. My point is, why aren’t these petitions for maintenance to be means tested? I agree there should be a minimum payment for paying for your kids, but subject to how much a household brings in. It’s disgusting that when I earn more I have to pay more. It’s like I had those children, did everything for them and when I got fed up of my ex’s ignorance, left them on their home to live a normal life while I worked and he looked after them because he got ‘stressed working at work’. The CMS is the biggest joke on the planet and this comes from me, a MOTHER. Fathers don’t complain for nothing, it’s disgusting and it should be changed. Thoughts?

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