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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To query Property Management company fees?

19 replies

MigsandTiggs · 09/04/2022 11:54

In Jan I bought a freehold property on a secure development and the sale contract included the first payment of management fees. The developer has now appointed a Residential Management company who last month sent out several forms plus their preliminary budget on which the monthly fees are based . One form referred to my lease, so I requested a revised form before signing anything legally binding as I'm freehold. Before setting up the direct debit payment I asked for clarification of some charges and queried several items. For example:
1 -a possible duplication/overlap of maintenance and repair charges
2- power and maintenance for 7 cctv units when all are not switched on

3 -who owns money set aside, but not used, for repairs; how long any surplus is allowed to accumulate and is any of it ever reimbursed to the payer
4 - Will I have sight of the annual accounts before the AGM?

First I called the company but was told that the manager was on holiday so spoke to his pa who advised that I email as she couldn't answer my questions. I sent the email. After about two weeks I chased it up, stressing that the lack of answers was holding up my payment as I wanted to know exactly what I was paying for. She then re-sent the same preliminary budget sheet, told me to check my deeds and advised I contact my solicitor. I suppose she was only replying as she was told to by her manager.
I replied that my solicitor was hardly likely to know her company's procedures for handling accumulated funds or whether all the cctv cameras are working!
There are 15 properties and while one other owner is concerned, no one is interested in challenging the charges, possibly because it's (only!) currently £336 pa. I don't get why you should just put money into a sinking fund for possible repairs and not care what happens to it afterwards. I have contacted the firm of solicitors who did the conveyancing to find out where I stand and am waiting to be assigned to a suitable person.
My point is that I'm not refusing to pay the fees, but I want to know that I'm getting what I'm paying for. It's just like when you buy a box of eggs at the supermarket you check they're all there.
I know that we're being charged for power, maintenance and repair for at least one cctv camera not even in use, because when I requested footage after a suspected intrusion, I was told that the relevant camera was not on.
On Monday I plan to phone the manager again. Maybe I'll get through.

OP posts:

Wannabegreenfingers · 09/04/2022 12:25

Good luck. All these companies are utterly crap.

bellabasset · 09/04/2022 12:29

Good for you for checking, you and the other owner should band together as these charges can run away wit you. What are your rights and responsibilities as freeholders?

sleepwhenidie · 09/04/2022 12:33

Definitely NBU. For info there are 3 freeholders of leasehold flats in our building and I run the management co. Any surplus in the sinking fund is allocated to specific freeholders according to what has been charged and received from them each year eg freeholder pays £100 pm into account and their share of costs is £1000 for year, £200 balance is on their account. If they sell their property (the freehold) they can withdraw the balance on the account (if they wish, or it gets passed on to incoming freeholder as part of the property sale/purchase).

sleepwhenidie · 09/04/2022 12:37

It sounds like you may have a massive tsk on your hands to achieve it but it is possible to demand to take over management of leasehold properties but iirc you need at least half of leaseholders to vote for it. With 15+ flats it’s likely to be a huge headache. But unless you do this you are pretty powerless to challenge the management co - it is pretty shit. We had a management co that owned an insurance co that charged a higher premium than any other firm, they charged 10% on every cost incurred, a fee for every letter they sent. It was outrageous.

balalake · 09/04/2022 13:00

Hope you get somewhere OP.

Along with regulating estate and letting agents, this should be regulated.

Houseplantmad · 09/04/2022 13:08

Which company is it? Some are totally unaccountable to their "clients" and terrible at doing repairs they should be doing.

Our friends have had a two year battle to get urgent repairs done (water ingress) and now the company has billed all the other residents saying they need to contribute to the repairs and named our friends! You can imagine how popular this has made them amongst their neighbours, not, as well as a breach of personal information.

Original poster

MigsandTiggs · 09/04/2022 13:16

@sleepwhenidie

@sleepwhenidle Thank you for the information on how you handle your sinking fund. It sounds entire reasonable to me. Tbh, if I had realised that a management company was going to be involved I would have run a mile!

OP posts:

Setthescenes · 09/04/2022 13:23

I pulled out of a house purchase because the management company wouldn't provide details on where the actual funds went, which seemed super high. I did find a picture of the company director on a ski slope, though.

Good luck, hope you get somewhere with it.

Original poster

MigsandTiggs · 09/04/2022 13:25

@Houseplantmad

Which company is it? Some are totally unaccountable to their "clients" and terrible at doing repairs they should be doing.

@Houseplantmad It's Ford's Residential Management, Altrincham. It looks like they manage loads of properties and the owner/director is RICS registered.

OP posts:

Original poster

MigsandTiggs · 09/04/2022 13:41

@Setthescenes

Good luck, hope you get somewhere with it.

When I was in the process of buying the property, my solicitor was told that there was going to be a management committee, and as we didn't have a clue how that would be composed, put my name forward to be on it. With all the problems of lockdown etc and intense pressure to complete we never followed it up. Rather naively I though it would be the residents getting together to agree on the split for repairs and maintenance with someone in the lead, as had been my previous experience with common ownership areas. The developer retained ownership of the road and walls and then hired Ford's.

OP posts:

Original poster

MigsandTiggs · 09/04/2022 14:00

@bellabasset

Good for you for checking, you and the other owner should band together as these charges can run away wit you. What are your rights and responsibilities as freeholders?

The development is a conversion of a former engineering work site, so the stage I bought into consists of a mix of 15 town houses and bungalows, all freehold. My understanding is that we are responsible for our own properties but the developer has kept ownership of the road, car parking area, and wall surrounding the development, hence the mgt company.

OP posts:

guessmyusername · 09/04/2022 15:47

I have had experience of challenging a management company for charges for our modern estate. We live in a mixed estate of houses and flats. The flats have exclusive garden ground and there is also communal ground for the whole estate. They tried to charge us for the whole gardening bill, including the ground for flats. When I challenged this they told me that this was apportioned according to the house deeds and I should contact my solicitor if I had any questions. I had already read the house deeds (I do this in my job!) and knew I was correct so I contacted them again quoting the house deeds. They backed down and agreed with me. A few years later they billed us for signage (Private Parking) and when I queried this it was for the flats parking area. They backed down on this as well. They don't like it when people challenge, but if you can argue your case they may listen to you.

TheElderleyBrothers · 10/04/2022 12:16

I have a flat with Fords too and I would be interested in how you get on. I find the attitude conveyed in their routine letters very arrogant. There is a culture in the office of not being able to make a decision without the say so of Daniel Ford. I have also had experience of their preferred maintenance team and was not impressed.

gogohm · 10/04/2022 12:42

We have a management company but it's clear where the money goes, the annual charge is seat at £96 currently and it cannot be increased unless the reserves fall below a certain amount. They manage the car park basically. The road is unadopted but is maintained by the council as paperwork is now going through 14 years after completion!

Sapphirejane · 10/04/2022 12:49

Good luck OP, this is giving me flashbacks of the nightmare that was the management company at the flat we used to own. They refused to sort the damp coming through an outside wall. My surveyor and their surveyor both agreed it was an issue with the render, management company refused to do anything. Complaints to RICS went nowhere. They are real cowboys, never heard of a good one.

Mindymomo · 10/04/2022 13:01

Unfortunately Residents Associations do have to submit Accounts and obviously an Accountant has to be engaged, so you should ask to see these Accounts. I worked for an Accountant and we had several clients who were Residents Association. Most of the funds goes on maintenance, gardening, cleaning and repairing windows, internal electricity, internal carpets, internal and external paintwork, insurance and then accountancy fees. It is normal to carry over unused funds and then the residents committee decide the amount to charge the following year.

Ninjaexpress · 10/04/2022 13:07

This is a management company, appointed by the freeholders. A company paid to manage the communal responsibilities. It's not a residents' association. The management company will consider themselves accountable to the freeholders, not the leaseholders.
Good luck Op, I hope you're lucky and have one of the decent freehold management companies.

Original poster

MigsandTiggs · 12/04/2022 09:25

@TheElderleyBrothers

I will keep in touch with you via pm re Fords. I now want sight of their maintenance and HSE contracts to check price and scope plus proof of the actual cost of insurance.

OP posts:

Original poster

MigsandTiggs · 26/04/2022 18:48

Hi, following advice from my solicitor, I started paying the monthly mgt fees. I've persisted in my questions and lo and behold, even tho Daniel Ford is an holiday, he has answered. He says I only need to ask to see the invoices/accounts as he wants the charges to be transparent, and he has already contacted the developer about the cctv camera not being switched on. Apparently it is not working and they are trying to get it repaired under warranty. (This may or may not be true as neighbours are wary of the developer's ethics). How any surplus in contingency fund is treated will be decided either at AGM or by the Mgt Committee (which consists of the developer only) so I will see how that works out in practice, over the years. Fortunately I am retired, not afraid of a challenge and with time on my hands for a fight.😀
It seems that the only way to get any answers from Ford's is to email Daniel directly and to keep at it. In your shoes, I would query the effectiveness/quality of work of the maintenance company. What is it's name, in case we get it too?

OP posts:

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