Me or DH BU?

[RagingRagingAndMoreRaging]

Hoping to get some independent views on this because I’m feeling that either I’m totally blind to my unreasonable behaviour, being gaslit or we are just experiencing reality through two totally different lenses.

We have a trip away coming up and my job is to organise it (we are trying to share tasks). We used to live where we are visiting so will have lots of people to catch up with. It will be busy but fun. None of our friends have spare rooms and bathrooms. At the most they have one spare bedroom.

When I was planning the trip I ruled out staying with friends because of the above and;
1 we are going for a week which is a long time to have a house guest.
2 moving between places would take up lots of time and we have a lot to pack in.
3 staying with friends but then buggering off to meet other friends would feel rude.
4 we are not in a good place as a family and are prone to get irritable with each other and argue. This at times is explosive. We are working on it but, I wouldn’t want to bring that into someone else’s home. I have to do a lot of facilitation and managing when things kick off which takes it’s toll on me emotionally and it’s harder when other people are around.

1. I am working on one of the days and have to set off really early.
2. If DC kicks off, if we have our own place we can retreat to it. Not disturb anyone. Things are calmer at the moment but late nights and out of routine who knows. We are just about managing to keep things smooth at home.
3. I want to be able to cook our own food and save some money rather than eating out or feeling bad that others are having to cook for us (or trying to cook in someone else’s kitchen)
4. I think DC will need time away from people to relax. So will I. DH isn’t like this.
5. DC won’t sleep well - too excited if there are other children. Fine usually but at the moment he’s very up and down. And like I said we are really working on a more harmonious family atmosphere. I don’t want us to go backwards.

10. This is likely to be our main holiday. I’m taking leave for it. I want some time on my own and in my own space - I get up early so it’s mornings mainly when they sleep in. I like to get a coffee and chill - look after myself a bit. Hard to do that in someone else’s house if you are the only one up and you don’t want to wake everyone. I need time without interacting - no matter who it is.

So those are all the reasons I decided not to consider asking friends if we can stay, including that none of them really have the space.

I looked into other options and presented them to DH - 3 different kinds of accommodation for different amounts of time etc. He asked why don’t we stay with friends? I said ‘I did think about that but ruled it out’ and gave him reason 4. Didn’t want to give him the whole list because each one would then be debated. He dismissed the reason and said it would be fine (it won’t - I know you can’t predict the future but I know what has happened before and what state we are in). So I gave him another and he dismissed that too. So I said that I had given it lots of thought and I really don’t want to stay with friends. I said that I really would rather not go for that length of time if we are staying with friends.

He got really cross and said it was disrespectful of me. The bit he found disrespectful changed. It was making the decision unilaterally at times and then not entering into a discussion about it at other times. He got very angry, stormed out a few times etc.

I don’t feel I did anything wrong. I was doing the planning. We had agreed that this was my job. I Considered what would give us the best time and took the top options to him. I didn’t enter a discussion about whether we might stay with friends as that would have been disingenuous as I had ruled it out and wouldn’t want to go if that’s what we were doing.

Up until the end of the conversation I stayed calm and tried to understand which bit of my behaviour he found disrespectful. At one point he mentioned not considering the financial implications and at another not considering what he would like (he loves being around people all the time). I am the main earner. Me and DC need time away from people to unwind.

I feel I did my job, I considered our needs as a whole family, listened to his input and stated my preference and boundary clearly and calmly. What I didn’t do is pretend to consider staying with friends when I know that was a non-negotiable for me.

May be I was being stubborn or selfish in his eyes but I was trying to set us up to succeed and make some lovely memories. In my view I did nothing wrong. In his view it was disrespectful.

AIBU?

Are you scared of him? You seem to be rationalising to the extreme. You don’t need to justify yourself. You make a good argument, I empathise because I would hate to stay with people, I’d far rather get an Airbnb or similar to retreat to and be myself at night. Staying with a friend for a week is excessive, I manage 2 nights with guests!

@RagingRagingAndMoreRaging

Rewritethestars1

Yes. Peacemaker is my middle name I’m working my way out of that role though and holding DH to account when necessary. It’s hard work though. Change is happening- it’s just slow.

Will it be worth it?

@DowntonCrabby

I’d let him stay with the friends and enjoy the peace to be honest. He sounds very selfish and completely lacking in empathy.

Yup this is exactly what I would do. He doesn’t seem pleasant to be around at all.

@HundredMilesAnHour

It sounds miserable. Is this really the life you want? All this drama and negotiation and is it respectful or not over a simple week away.

You sound completely incompatible and like your relationship is past the point of recovery. He sounds awful.

All of this. How is this relationship worth salvaging? Must be awful for you and DC to live like this

@RagingRagingAndMoreRaging

I just think you are both primed to be upset when the approach is to rule things out with the attitude that things are non negotiable and the other person isn't consulted in decisions being made. And then the approach is to present your veto in a way that pretty much seems intended to start an argument.

Same as if he was in charge of accommodations and he came to you and said we are staying with friends. My task, my decision. No need to consult you or take into considerations your wants. This is non-negotiable. I have veto power.

I just don't see that as a healthy way for couples to communicate as it puts you at odds with each other.

It isn't that I think you should stay with friends - it seems like you are prosecutor and defense lawyers going at each other. Each preparing your case and then defending your positions.

Midlifemusings

That’s his perspective too so it’s helpful to have that. Thank you.

The thing is, if I had entered into a discussion about it, knowing that I didn’t want that, and wouldn’t even consider it, that would have felt like manipulation- ‘I’ll pretend that this is an option to keep you happy, but really I’m just going to give you all the reasons I’ve thought of for not doing it because this is a non negotiable for me’.

That would feel less respectful than me saying (in a calm and pleasant way - not at all argumentative) ‘yes, I did think about that, but I had ruled it out because….’ And then when he started dismissing those things (which I find disrespectful- they are my valid views and opinions) saying that ‘for me, this is not something I want to do, I’d rather not go to be honest’. Again, I wasn’t cross or argumentative at this point. I was calm and just matter of fact. I felt like I was just stating my view and my position in a clear way.

Why waste time discussing when I know that it’s not something I’m prepared to do?

I can see that this may come across as blunt but my tone of voice wasn’t harsh or blunt. It was a pleasant conversation until I said that it wasn’t something I wanted to do.

The reason we are trying to each keep the mental load of each task is to try and get more done. Less discussion because it sucks up so much time. We have lots of decisions to make at the moment. I have always taken the domestic mental load historically so we are trying the ‘Fair Play’ method. Early days and this may be something that we need to change about it.

Really appreciate you bringing a different perspective. Thank you. How would you deal with it in your relationship, if one of you had a strong position on something and it was non negotiable for you? Do you state it or do you smooth the conversation somehow?

Thank you all for the other posts too. In answer to the questions:

No. I’m not scared of him per se, we have both felt bullied and controlled by the other one in different ways. I am finding the conflict hard though. It’s exhausting rather than scary.

We are compatible in lots of ways. The areas we are not is the day to day stuff. Values, interests, humour, how we want to parent (he’s struggling to shake the parenting model he had but wants to) etc we align. it’s domestic stuff where we really struggle. We are opposite ends of the continuum.

Is the relationship worth salvaging? Who knows. Change is happening and this was one argument in an otherwise good week. It’s slow. Things are def changing with DC. I won’t tolerate that now and he knows it.

I consider leaving regularly but have decided to commit for a while longer, put 100% effort in. Challenge myself and him when we are out of line and see. If things don’t change I will need to leave.

I am finding it tough though

@HundredMilesAnHour

It sounds miserable. Is this really the life you want? All this drama and negotiation and is it respectful or not over a simple week away.

You sound completely incompatible and like your relationship is past the point of recovery. He sounds awful.

This. Who lives like this? It doesn’t sound like a relationship it sounds like a project you’re managing at work. All of this “working on it” and “changing slowly” and “concept to execution”. What a load of crap. Pull the trigger.

I am failing to see what is disrespectful. That word gets bandied around a lot nowadays and I find it’s often an excuse for someone simply not agreeing with something .
More importantly, your relationship sounds exhausting and a bit miserable . As someone else said why don’t you and DC stay in a hotel and he stay with friends?

Good grief! This relationship sounds awful. Like a bad work project or something.

Do people actually live like this??

Is money an issue? I can see staying with friends if you're struggling financially. Did you present any sc options or just why you wanted it ?

I wouldn’t like how you did that and the fact that you say you weren’t entering into a discussion as you’d already ruled it out would have got my back up (I realise you didn’t actually say that to him)
For us I would have said to DH I’d really rather not stay with friends for all these reasons, what do you think and if he’d have been really keen to stay with people then I would have suggested a compromise of 2 days with friends and the rest in accommodation. I realise you said you don’t want that but for us we try to find a compromise. I don’t think you organising it means you deciding things

This sounds miserable OP. I know marriage is a legal contract but you sound like you're actually in a Court room.
Most marriages need effort at some points when one or other has fucked up (and I'm not including abuse obvs)
This completely regimented thing you're trying, it sounds so joyless. I mean, is it worth it?

As I said, this was one argument in an otherwise good week. We are aligned on all the important things. We just need to find a way to manage domestic arrangements that works for us both as we are polar opposites.

I’m not brow beaten or scared. I’m a force to be reckoned with when I need to be - and sometimes when I don’t. I’m also peri menopausal so trying to figure out what impact that is having and whether it’s making me see things differently and react to things differently (for better or worse). We both have our faults. In this instance I think he was in the wrong but I’d like to double check because it might be something I need to work on too.

I’m not going to blow our family apart unless we have exhausted all options. Marriage and children are a commitment and a responsibility- if things don’t change then I will have no option. It is a possibility that this will happen but divorce isn’t the easy option either. Life isn’t always easy. Sometimes you have to work at things. Personal growth is important. He’s working hard at changing and so am I. There are lots of good things about our family life too. I just haven’t posted about them.

I guess the only thing I could see from the other side would be do you have the cash available for any of your costed options? Is he just thinking why spend x amount on accommodation when we know so many people so we could avoid spending that? I think the presenting it as a done deal probably is far more frustrating than working through the process of ruling it out together. That way you both end up understanding each other’s opinions however I appreciate that doesn’t fit with the allocation of tasks and seeing it to completion aspect! Can you afford the accommodation?

It sounds like your relationship is bad. But you’ve not yet decided to end it in the hope that your H will change - seems unlikely. And belief that staying is better for your DC - which might not be the case.

Might be better to skip the trip, or just you and your DC go.

If your DC is older primary age and your H’s parenting style is still authoritarian and domineering, for example, and he can behave in bullying and controlling ways towards you, that seems unlikely to change.

YANBU, but I wouldn’t have given him one reason off that list, I’d have given him the whole list.

I wouldnt have sat and listened to an increasingly argumentative person getting stroppy about them essentially not getting their own way.

“I’m not spending a week sharing a shower and cooking facilities as a trade off for you spending more time with friends. That’s not a holiday. Time with friends can be achieved another way while we’re there. A shower, however, cannot be rustled up from nowhere. You’re being unreasonable and making this all about you.”

And then I’d have left the conversation.

I know you say change is happening.

But even here, he’s forcing it so that even a basic conversation is being driven by him and you’re tied in knots about whether something that is patently infeasible should be considered and it’s all focused on what he wants. Where’s the being tied in knots on his end? Is he off thinking about his behaviour?

Your friends not having room was enough.

And he’s chucked his toys out the pram because he can’t get what he wants. You considered compromise, but ruled it out because it wouldn’t work. He didn’t even listen.

Of course you can't stay with friends, they don't have room.
You seem very incompatable.

Tell your dh that none of your friends can accommodate you and you want your own cooking facilities etc. I take it he doesn't do all the cooking and cleaning.

I'd say his reaction proved how right you were about point 4!

But essentially, it sounds like you had a non-negotiable that was his preference by a long way. He was really not expecting your non-negotiable so he was caught off guard and needed to process it. That's all fine - and most of us wouldn't communicate brilliantly in that position. But he handled it really, really badly - proving the first reason you gave him right, as I said above! It's even worse if you'd both previously agreed each had some leeway for key decisions in your respective areas of responsibility- you made a key decision and then tried to discuss other options with him.

It sounds exhausting and as though there's not a great deal of respect on either side and he seems to think bulldozing his partner is an appropriate form of communication!