Religious celebrations at nursery

[Pelomum]

I picked up my DC from nursery this week and as soon as I walked in noticed a prominent Ramadan display with pictures of a Quran, food etc. Ramadan falls around the same time as Lent/Easter and Passover but there was nothing for these religious holidays. The nursery is part of a big university as a place for staff to send their children but this particular branch has more local families attending. My husband and I were raised RC and my DC is baptised but we feel that religion is a personal preference and institutions should either celebrate ALL religions or none - should I speak to someone about it?

@Headabovetheparakeet

I wasn’t taking exception to you saying Easter is important in the Christian faith. I was taking exception to people acting like a pp was ridiculous for pointing out that Christmas is ‘bigger’ in our culture so it makes sense that if you were going to celebrate one Christian event then Christmas is likely to be the one you’d choose. Whereas Eid is generally the ‘biggest’ one in the Muslim faith. So celebrating Eid and celebrating Christmas is perfectly fair.

But that’s not what op is upset about anyway clearly, since she still hasn’t bothered coming back or even clearing up whether the nursery ignored Christmas - which they won’t have.

It has though, it started with shrove Tuesday, Ash Wednesday, Lent and Palm Sunday

Lent is a separate period preceding Easter and Palm Sunday is this weekend.

I wouldn't expect a nursery school to cover lent, it's a bit of a downer for the under 4s.

@Pelomum

I picked up my DC from nursery this week and as soon as I walked in noticed a prominent Ramadan display with pictures of a Quran, food etc. Ramadan falls around the same time as Lent/Easter and Passover but there was nothing for these religious holidays. The nursery is part of a big university as a place for staff to send their children but this particular branch has more local families attending. My husband and I were raised RC and my DC is baptised but we feel that religion is a personal preference and institutions should either celebrate ALL religions or none - should I speak to someone about it?

If you are that bothered, I suggest you go and look at the agreed syllabus for your local area - it will lay out the statutory RE for all stages. Btw until 2020 when PSHE was added, RE was the only subject that had to be taught until age 18 (1944 Butler Education Act). Surely as a multicultural, multi faith, educated (in the most part) society, we should be encouraging understanding of everyone. You have your faith and feel free to raise your child in that, it is entirely separate from the ACADEMIC teaching of RELIGION (not faith), that schools and nurseries conduct.

It has though, it started with shrove Tuesday, Ash Wednesday, Lent and Palm Sunday

It's not Palm Sunday yet - that's when Holy Week starts. And Eastertide doesn't start until Easter Sunday.

So no, Easter hasn't started. Lent has, though.

Depending of course on the demographic there will many dc in the nursery who had never heard of Ramadan or Eid. Everyone knows about the existence Easter it's impossible not to - the eggs appeared on the shelves on Boxing Day. As long as a range of festivals are acknowledged through the year it's fine. I assume Christmas crafts were done and had the nursery been open next week I'm sure they'd have done that too. I'm surprised you think the nursery wouldn't be aware of other DC's religions just because they don't know yours. I work in a school and whilst I don't know which dc come from practising Christian families, I certainly know who the Muslim ones are. It's essential for dietary requirements.

I've been asked to clarify re Christmas - a tree was put up and decorated with tinsel and lights. Although I don't have issues with a tree and usually have one myself, it has nothing to do with baby Jesus. A small nativity scene would have been what I would associate with Christmas usually. There was no mention of the story behind the day. Children are curious things and my son is always asking questions. I did not make a "fuss" because I am aware that other children or parents might not have been comfortable with this and that is fine. I am not "phobic" to any religion - thanks. Sometimes, in an effort to be inclusive, we become exclusive and this is why I think it's better to steer clear of celebrating religious festivals in schools etc. Thank you to those who made inoffensive comments. Have a good day :)

I think you’ve got this all wrong (and I grew up in a strict RC household). The nursery is highlighting Ramadan as being a university nursery there are likely to be several families fasting. It’s unusual that it clashes with Easter, but they are not making the children fast, they might try some foods, or do some colouring. They will not be teaching the Qur’an.

I’m pretty sure your nursery will have done pancake day, and you’ve already mentioned a secular Christmas. They probably did fireworks pictures for Guy Fawkes and Diwali (similar times). They may well have done some egg pictures and spring themed things for Easter/a bunch of other Spring festivals including Norooz. They probably did Chinese New Year too.

I don’t think they can really do a proper RC Easter for a nursery population. Eggs and the Easter Bunny would be about as close as they get, wandering in the wilderness, betrayal and crucifixion are way beyond what a secular nursery would do. And don’t even start me on resurrection.

Faith, and the beliefs of each religion are for you to cover at home. Nurseries don’t go into faith at all, and won’t be covering the teachings of any religion. They will just be doing themed crafts.

I'm interested that you say in your op that you do not practice a religion. I don't though understand why you mind if others do?

The eyfs framework expects nurseries to give some understanding of world religions and cultures. This sounds a reasonable way of approaching the task. Perhaps they will do Easter next year. If you are worried your child won't have an opportunity to learn about Easter in their life then you should definitely raise this

I doubt they are celebrating Ramadan either tbf. Are they all fasting and praying? I doubt it. Just a display equivalent to the tree and a few crafts.

@Ericaequites

Doesn’t Ramadan happen at different times of the year because Islam uses a slightly different calendar? Passover nearly always occurs during Holy Week, because the Last Supper was a Passover celebration.

The first day of Pesach always falls on Good Friday.

The setting of Easter follows the lunar calendar and is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the 21st March and I imagine that Passover has a pretty similar formula as the Last Supper was a Passover meal.

As this is a nursery, it would be unusual, to say the least that toddlers would be fasting as the usual rule of thumb is that children do not fast until they enter puberty, so periods for girls and hair growth for boys is what we tell our parents on advice from the mosque.

Did they have pancakes on Shrove Tuesday?

I'd be amazed if they haven't acknowledged other festivals belonging to other religions. I thought Hanukkah had been missed at DS school but then a week later spotted some stuff on the classroom wall about it.

Note though that they will probably acknowledge the aspects that nursery age children actually understand - meals/special foods, practices like lighting candles or giving gifts. They won't go into the content of religious texts as its beyond the comprehension of toddlers, so if you were hoping for their coverage of Easter to be considering the resurrection of christ, YABU. If they are closed over easter its not surprising they've not covered it much. Ramadan started a week ago, so there may be kids experiencing that at home for whom its important its acknowledged. It's the biggest Muslim festival.

Sometimes, in an effort to be inclusive, we become exclusive and this is why I think it's better to steer clear of celebrating religious festivals in schools etc.

Your suggestion is much more exclusive than teaching children about Ramadan and putting up Christmas trees.

If you don't teach children about religion and culture they'll grow up ignorant.

Also OP what are you getting at here? You aren't saying it but the allusion is that perhaps the nursery staff are predominantly Muslim & you think that's the faith being "pushed"? Its honestly very unlikely unless you live in an area where the vast majority of the children are Muslim.

@OfstedOffred

Also OP what are you getting at here? You aren't saying it but the allusion is that perhaps the nursery staff are predominantly Muslim & you think that's the faith being "pushed"? Its honestly very unlikely unless you live in an area where the vast majority of the children are Muslim.

That's exactly what she's saying. Our nursery is predominantly white and (I think) non-religious and I think it's great that the children get to experience things from different cultures that they otherwise wouldn't get to experience. I can't imagine someone being upset by their children learning, well, anything that a nursery teaches to be honest.

Tbh I always assume that because the UK has a history of christianity most children/families are already more aware of it, it's the other faiths that are less likely to be well understood that it's important children learn about in school.

@OfstedOffred

Tbh I always assume that because the UK has a history of christianity most children/families are already more aware of it, it's the other faiths that are less likely to be well understood that it's important children learn about in school.

Absolutely this. We teach our children about our own beliefs and cultures at home.

The child of a Roman Catholic parent who feels so strongly about this should know the stories behind Easter and Christmas without them being taught in a childcare setting.

OP just out of curiosity what type of religious easter display would you hope to see in a nursery setting? Crucified Jesus? Zombie Jesus? Or prehaps a scene of persectution and torture. As religious festivals go this particular one is not really appropriate to celebrate in a nursery.

Eggs, bunnies and chicks are not at all representative a religious festival but of a celebration of spring and the new life it brings.

@Kanaloa

Yeah, and I have said multiple times that I agree, Christmas is more important in British culture than Easter.

Your blind spot here, which I've pointed out but you're ignoring, is that it's wrong to conflate culture with religion.

To your average non-religious British person, Christmas is probably the most important celebration but to a practising Christian, it most likely isn't. Telling a Christian that their faith has been covered by putting up a tree and playing Christmas music is either arrogant or ignorant.

My original point, which seems to have annoyed you is that if religious education were done properly throughout school, older children and adults should have some awareness of these celebrations and what they mean to the people who practice them. So no, I don't expect nursery children to fast (young kids don't do that anyway) but I see no reason why they can't learn about fasting. My son is 3 and he knows what that means.

I'm not religious myself but I was raised a Catholic and my partner was raised Muslim. We won't be raising our children in either religion but I would be embarrassed if my kids aren't able to hold a reasonable and respectful conversation with someone about their religion when they're older.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

It has though, it started with shrove Tuesday, Ash Wednesday, Lent and Palm Sunday

It's not Palm Sunday yet - that's when Holy Week starts. And Eastertide doesn't start until Easter Sunday.

So no, Easter hasn't started. Lent has, though.

Yes Palm Sunday on 10th April

It's the way my comment flowed - event leading up to Easter and lent because of Christ's 40 days' in the wilderness

[quote Headabovetheparakeet]@Kanaloa

Yeah, and I have said multiple times that I agree, Christmas is more important in British culture than Easter.

Your blind spot here, which I've pointed out but you're ignoring, is that it's wrong to conflate culture with religion.

To your average non-religious British person, Christmas is probably the most important celebration but to a practising Christian, it most likely isn't. Telling a Christian that their faith has been covered by putting up a tree and playing Christmas music is either arrogant or ignorant.

My original point, which seems to have annoyed you is that if religious education were done properly throughout school, older children and adults should have some awareness of these celebrations and what they mean to the people who practice them. So no, I don't expect nursery children to fast (young kids don't do that anyway) but I see no reason why they can't learn about fasting. My son is 3 and he knows what that means.

I'm not religious myself but I was raised a Catholic and my partner was raised Muslim. We won't be raising our children in either religion but I would be embarrassed if my kids aren't able to hold a reasonable and respectful conversation with someone about their religion when they're older.
[/quote]
It hasn’t annoyed me. And I’m not conflating culture with religion, I’m saying that in this case, the nursery is celebrating both things culturally and not in a religious sense. OP seems determined to point out how Christmas and Easter aren’t celebrated at nursery in a religious sense but neither was Eid! Unless they were praying and fasting, Eid was celebrated culturally. So was Christmas.

So I’m not telling a Christian ‘their faith has been covered by putting up a tree’ I’m saying that in this case both religions have been treated much the same, as in have been covered in a cultural fashion - Christmas was celebrated with a tree, Eid with a display board of pictures. Neither was covered in a religiously appropriate fashion.

I would stop reading the daily heil if I were you

OP you say nurseries should celebrate ALL religions? Most early years settings will "celebrate" the main religious festivals. But it's still lent. It's not even Holy Week yet. Maybe wait until after Palm Sunday before you speak to someone about it. If you're concerned about your child not learning about Easter take them to mass on Sunday, raise your child in the Catholic faith, as you have promised to do and worry less about what your child is not being exposed to at nursery. Or is it what they are being able exposed to that concerns you?