To think that smoking indoors around children should be illegal?

[Crimesean]

It's been very clear for decades from multiple peer-reviewed studies that secondhand smoke harms children. It's bad enough watching people smoke around their children outdoors, but it's absolutely disgusting and (in my opinion) abusive to smoke indoors around children.

Not only will those children be far, far more likely to suffer from respiratory illnesses during childhood or later life, they are more likely to develop cancer and heart problems too. Children of smokers are also much more likely to take up smoking themselves.

Why has the government not stepped in to do something about this? OK, social workers/police have a lot to do and wouldn't be able to follow up on just this one issue on its own, but even just making it illegal would help over time to reduce it, and for those parents who don't care about their child's health, it might convince them to stop smoking indoors if it could get them fined.

I agree.

I found it deeply disturbing when I went to my (chaotic) friends house and found her new (twat) boyfriend and his mates smoking in the living room around all the kids toys!

It’s absolutely disgusting that anyone thinks it’s acceptable tbh.

I honestly don’t think ss would care about this and if they denied it what do you think ss would do?

Yes. Annoy the neighbours, not supervise your children properly, or damage their lungs and prime their bodies for asthma and allergies. I find some combination of all 3 best myself. And while your at it spend all your money which you don't have to wait on killing yourself quicker.

Not sure making it illegal will help. Parents who smoke either weigh up their options and pick what they think it the best way to do it/ manage to stop eventually/ don't understand or care.

God help you if its green and not legal where you live

@Minfilia

I agree.

I found it deeply disturbing when I went to my (chaotic) friends house and found her new (twat) boyfriend and his mates smoking in the living room around all the kids toys!

It’s absolutely disgusting that anyone thinks it’s acceptable tbh.

Do you think it being illegal would actually change anything?

i don't think making it illegal would stop anything.

it's currently illegal to smoke in the car with a person under 18 but when i'm driving i regularly see adults smoking with children in the car.

The only time these people are going to be fined for that is if the police see them doing it - which im assuming is quite rare.

For making it illegal to work the police would have to rely on other people reporting to them or for them to see it for themselves which isn't going to happen.

I think the 'unenforceable' notion is a red herring. Loads of things are illegal that are almost never actually prosecuted for, like smoking in cars with children present, underage drinking etc. Even just making it illegal sends a notice to the people who do this, that society widely condemns them.

At the moment, some of those people who smoke around their DC will be saying "it's not illegal, is it?", and thinking that it would be if it was really that bad. Don't forget that many will be low on educational attainment, any may well have grown up with smoking in the house being normal. Something like it being actively illegal will make a difference over time.

@toastofthetown

It’s unenforceable, and there’s a risk of the consequences of enforcing it would be worse than the consequences of second hand smoke. The manpower needed to enforce fines is far beyond the capacity of our current police and social services - stretching them even thinner, and then what of repeat offenders? Removing the children, or imprisoning their parents is potentially far more traumatic for children.

There are many things parents do which are legal, but not ideal (forward facing from 9kg, excessive and unmonitored screen time, poor diet, no effort with education etc.) but criminalising it is totally unworkable.

Stuff on AIBU is open liscence to take the piss.

Toastofthetown explains it well without the side order of sarcasm.

It’s also illegal to throw your cigarette ends onto the floor but I see people doing it all the time, one woman chucked hers in the road yesterday whilst I was waiting for a bus, my old neighbour use to chuck them out of the window into my garden 😡 being illegal won’t stop people doing it.

I voted YABU

In an ideal world it wouldn't happen though.

@MajorCarolDanvers

The kind of people who still smoke indoors in front of children wouldn't be motivated by making it illegal.

Absolutely this. If you're willing to smoke in a house with your children you don't have much consideration for what's right and wrong.

Even just making it illegal sends a notice to the people who do this, that society widely condemns them

I really doubt people would care.

Absolutely this. If you're willing to smoke in a house with your children you don't have much consideration for what's right and wrong.

I don’t know how you get through to people, it’s not like people aren’t aware of the risks. My mum smokes, I’m asthmatic with a heart condition but she still smoked in the house because it was her house, her rights, she was entitled to do it. My non-smoking dad died of a form of lung cancer associated with smoking and she was adamant it was nothing to do with her 🙄

@Maray1967

1. It should be illegal. I can’t see why it’s illegal to smoke in a car with children but not in the house.

1. Lots of things are difficult to enforce but are still illegal. Countries have legislated against smacking - how is that enforced? It would be easier to prove that children are subject to cigarette smoke indoors than have been smacked as their clothes will smell of smoke . I could always tell which students came from smoke-filled homes as soon as I pulled their essay out of the plastic wallet.

My mil smokes but never when her grandchildren are there. But I can still smell smoke on them when we get home so that's not proof that someone has smoked when children are actually present.

100%. I have a friend who’s in-laws smoke & her & her DH have split up, when her child comes back from them he is absolutely stinking of smoke. He has developed a cough which the GP has said that the smoking could contribute to & despite the lawyers sending medical notes etc to the ex, there is nothing they can actually do. It’s disgusting people would jeopardise their kids health’s over a habit of their choosing!

I agree with you OP.

I grew up in a house full to the brim with smokers.

Out of all of the children in the house, I'm the only one who didn't grow up to be a smoker.

I also always develop a serious chest infection even from things like a cold.

Pneumonia is no new thing to me.

I once went to a doctor's appointment when I was young and the doctor asked me if I smoked and I said no, and ended up almost playing 20 questions and basically I stunk to high heaven of cigarettes even though I honestly did not smoke. The doctor said he'd never smelled anything like it on a passive smoker. Only really on active smokers.

Over a year ago my son and I fled DV to my nans house and she often hosts smokers, as she's a smoker herself.

They'd go into the kitchen, crack the window, and smoke. Thinking that a) we wouldn't need to walk through it if we wanted anything from the kitchen because it went out of the window and b) that the door magically kept the smoke from the rest of the house.

My son immediately started having more allergic reactions and developed severe eczema.

After a lengthy battle of trying to educate my nan, who also works in respiratory and cardiology, she reluctantly agreed that smokers should go into the conservatory. So, still not outside, and barely a room away, but less of it comes in the house. My son's allergies have waned and his eczema has not appeared again since.

So yes. I do think it should be illegal indoors where there are or will be children present who cannot consent to the risk of harm to their health. And I do think social services should be involved in cases where this is the case.

I thought it was illegal to smoke indoors

In public places, yes. Not in private houses.

I think it should be, but like other posters have said, how would it be enforced?

More importantly, the kind of people who happily and willingly smoke in the house with their kids present (knowing full well how bad it is) are hardly going to suddenly stop because the law says it’s illegal.

I voted YABU, not because I smoke (I never have, probably because I was brought up in a house where both parents smoked 60+ each a day and I hated it: hated the smell on my clothes, hated that everything was permeated by the smell and nicotine colour over the house, hated that everyone knew my parents smoked Etc.) but because you can’t (or shouldn’t) advocate that just because some people do something you don’t agree with, insist that it should be banned and the ban should be enshrined in law.
For example, in a world where so many lives are ruined by alcohol consumption, are you also advocating for alcohol to be banned? Far more people have their lives ruined or cut short because of the availability of alcohol than children are smoked around these days, and that’s because the message that smoking is harmful is already well-known and continues to be advertised.
Making things “against the law” is not the way to go - but the slippery slope that would eventually remove autonomy and freedom. Is that what you really want?
If you don’t want your DM or DD smoking around your children, then tell them that if they do, they’ll have no further visits, and cite the research you’ve quoted as the reason. You don’t need the law to back you up, just you big girl pants!

@Crimesean

It's not necessarily about policing it - it's not like bobbies on the beat are going to knock on random doors - but even just making it illegal can have an effect over time, the nudge. For example, teachers know which children stink of smoke all the time, and as part of a picture could report that to social services or the police.

You could make the same argument about smacking - I think it should be against the law to smack a child, because in a civilised society we shouldn't permit people to hit their children. Smoking around them is the same thing (and actually more likely to cause harm).

The number of people who can't stand up to their (e.g.) DM who they don't want to smoke around their DC ("it never did you any harm") would have another defence ("I know Mum, but it's against the law now, what if the kids tell them up at the school").

You can't legislate every single thing that causes harm though. For instance leaving a child to cry and try to sleep train categorically causes some level of harm with raised cortisol that can take weeks to subside.

Should that be illegal?

Education is key and instilling the desire to nor harm your children is what is needed but this requires full societal overhaul and simply isn't going to happen.

You simply would not smoke around a child you cared about, or hit them, or leave them to cry unless there were circumstances that dictated you gave in to one or more of these such as stress, lack of support or education.

We are all guilty of some things that cause our children harm in varying degrees and it's okay on balance.

You can't go around arresting mothers or putting them further into poverty for cutting corners, for relying on drugs (alcohol, prescribed, recreational) due to stress etc.

You can only remove children who would otherwise come to serious injury.

It's yet another nudge and every little helps. Enforcement isn't really the issue, it is one of those things that would be near impossible to properly enforce but it reinforces the message that smoking around children isn't acceptable. It would have an advertised campaign and be taught to kids at school who can be quite effective at taking the message home.
Where it will be enforced and prosecuted could well be as an addon offence such as when police al called out to domestics/ASBO incidents etc - the main charge might not stick but they can at least do them for something.

Nobody should be smoking nowadays anyway - it's decades old news that it is bad for you and for those around you - and not just around while you smoke but afterwards, 2nd and 3rd hand smoke.
I do wish there were more prosecutions for smoking in cars with children / work verhicles. It's something you see all to regularly and it should be easy pickings for the police (and then they have the opportunity to find anything else untoward once they've had that good cause to stop them).

They should just ban smoking all together and stop selling the stinky cancer sticks

Most governments would be very reluctant to make laws that prevented people carrying out a legal activity in their own homes. Its a slippery slope for human rights. The only way forward I can see is to monitor children's health more closely, and where health issues related to smoking are identified, interventions taken. Much the same as it remains legal to consume as much alcohol as you wish around your children, with intervention only occurring where a negative impact on them is observed.

@vodkaredbullgirl

I smoke but my 24 and 22 yr old don't.

That’s great but it doesn’t change the fact that children of smokers are more likely to smoke themselves (not 100% going to smoke).

I think it should be illegal to drink alcohol or take any drugs around kids but it seems the most virulent anti smokers can't bear to be deprived of their alcohol.

I personally find most perfume & all those chemical air fresheners so repulsive I wish they was illegal.
They make my eyes water & sets me off coughing but that doesn't mean it's fair for everyone else to give up perfume because I don't like it.

I think they should bring in a birth date ban for smoking so e.g. everyone born after Jan 1st 2004 will never legally be allowed to buy cigarettes in the UK.
That's what they would do if they really wanted smoking gone.

People like you OP are NEVER happy though, because if all the smokers go into their gardens, then you'll be back whining about how you can't enjoy your garden because of the smoke blowing over the fence.

The more stupid petty little things like smoking you put on Social Services to deal with, the more genuinely in urgent need of help children will be left to be abused because instead of dealing with the family where someone is visiting that childs bed every night, they'll all be too busy dealing with time wasting calls about someone who thought they saw a lit cigarette in the window of a house where a child lives or investigating whether some kid visited their granny who smokes & now his coat smells a bit is at risk of being around tobacco smoke.
Don't they have enough to do?

were illegal.
I wish we had an edit button.