...to think learning to write by hand will soon not be a priority?

[WalkingOnTheCracks]

My teenage daughter wrote a letter yesterday. I mean, on paper, to go in an envelope.

It occurred to me that I couldn't remember the last time I saw her use a pen.

It then occurred to me that I couldn't remember the last time I used a pen. And I'm a writer.

Birthday cards - that's about it.

So, how long will it be before handwriting becomes a non-core subject in schools, like art or woodwork?

To put it another way, for what reason will the ability to write by hand be vital to prospering in the world?

Signature? No, there are much more reliable ways of identifying a person, and they're already becoming the norm.

Work? I can't think of many jobs in which anything vital is communicated in handwriting. Teachers marking homework, possibly, but you can see how that might become obsolete. Writing on whiteboards in meetings? Yeah, there's still a lot of that. And even my doctor prints out prescriptions. There are few jobs for which the ability to write by hand is essential.

Just the sheer pleasure of doing it? Yep, possibly. But in that case handwriting will become like turning wood or cultivating bonsais - something that you might learn to do because you're interested, but unlikely to be a priority in the curriculum.

For formal or significant things - love letters, expressions of condolence? Well, possibly, but that's a remnant of a time when writing a letter was an important gesture. I'm not sure that it'll have the same significance for my grandchildren, because they'll have seen so few handwritten documents that it'll seem archaic rather than important.

One might say, 'But what if all the computers in the world crashed? People would still need to communicate in writing." And that's true, but it wouldn't be reason enough to spend money on teaching people to do it. Just as, in the event of all the cars grinding to a halt, people would still need to get around - but we haven't spent money on making sure everyone can ride a horse. We don't invest in teaching things that the vast majority of people are unlikely to have to do.

So, to be clear here, I'm not suggesting that handwriting should be dropped from the curriculum tomorrow. I'm asking what the justification will be for keeping it on the curriculum in a few decades from now.

YABU - there will always be practical, compelling reasons for teaching people to write by hand, and here they are...

YANBU - handwriting is probably going the way of archery or sewing. Some people will learn to do it, but most people won't ever need to, so it won't be a core subject in schools.

@Minikievs

YABVU. Just because you don't use one in your work and your daughter doesn't use one.....

Both my kids use one every single day. All homework. All school work. My daughter writes her diary every day.

I use mountains of paper at work (not my choice, the industry I'm in) and I couldn't do my job properly without a pen.

As a side note, my son writes in cursive and it's almost illegible! Wish school would let them write non cursive.

The question wasn't 'AIBU to think that no one uses a pen anymore?" Of course, many people do.

As I said in the post, "...to be clear here, I'm not suggesting that handwriting should be dropped from the curriculum tomorrow. I'm asking what the justification will be for keeping it on the curriculum in a few decades from now."

I don't think the justification will be that 'a lot of people used to use a pen every day'.

It's interesting, though, that your job involves a lot of paperwork and handwriting, because I was trying to think of a job where that was vital to the process.

One might be accountancy. Accountants spend a lot of time collecting, collating, notating, cross-copying written information. But even that's going to change. I've been involved with a company that's working on commercial software to make paper obsolete in accountancy. In ten years from now, accountants will refuse to accept paper invoices, receipts, tax forms....anything. Not that they'll need to refuse them, because there won't be any.

And though I don't know what your job is, I'd be interested to think about how paperwork might be phased out of your workplace. Not, perhaps, for you, but for whoever's doing your job in ten or fifteen years' time.

@Rifling

Yabu - we are already seeing problems with children not developing the fine motor skills they need because they are writing less. I teach at university and, paradoxically, I have many students who cannot produce essays in the exam time frame because their handwriting is so poor and they can't type either!

It’s really the other way round and lack of fine motor development is causing handwriting problems.

I don't think that writing is going to disappear from the curriculum for the foreseeable future. Maths, for instance, is very difficult to do on a computer at present, so unless keyboards are adapted to make it easier to write equations and complicated fractions, maths has to be handwritten.

I appreciate hand written cards, and I always think of Moonpig cards as a bit of a copout.

The need for reading, and solutions that don’t involve high tech, won’t vanish in any place that needs information holding for any length of time. Computers are great at disseminating information over space: bloody awful at holding it over time. We can’t read some files produced just 20 or 30 years ago easily. Certainly they would never have the widespread accessibility of print. The increasing requirements for updates pushed by security demands ensure that that will continue. Commercial obsolescence demands could in theory be got rid of, but good luck trying that.

Acts of law are still recorded on vellum for this reason.

Which means we either accept writing continues, or accept elitist control.

I went to uni 14 years ago and I took all my notes on a laptop, take all my meeting notes at work digitally now and would leave a phone message at work for someone by sending it them on Slack.

Wouldn’t you need to write a message down before doing that though? And what if it’s something they really need to see as soon as they get back to their desk? Isn’t a.written post it note better for that? And wouldn’t a lecture theatre be noisy if everyone was hammering g away on laptops?

Gift tags and cards, yes, but with Moonpig and the like, you don't even need to handwrite a card any more.

You don’t need to, no, but I think it is nice to do so, rather than leaving it to Mppoig. I’ve used them for personalised cards with my own photos etc but I still hand write and post them myself.

I can't remember the last time I physically wrote something - my to do list and diary are digital, too!

If you wanted to wanted to label something, say for the freezer, wouldn’t be quicker and less faff to write a label rather than doing it on the computer?

The need for reading, and solutions that don’t involve high tech, won’t vanish in any place that needs information holding for any length of time. Computers are great at disseminating information over space: bloody awful at holding it over time. We can’t read some files produced just 20 or 30 years ago easily. Certainly they would never have the widespread accessibility of print. The increasing requirements for updates pushed by security demands ensure that that will continue. Commercial obsolescence demands could in theory be got rid of, but good luck trying that.

Slightly off topic but I feel this way about old photos. Digital media are never going to be as accessible as photo albums.

I agree with the op.

I honestly can't see it's value lasting.

Slightly off topic but I feel this way about old photos. Digital media are never going to be as accessible as photo albums.

Accessible in what way? I'd say digital photos are far more accessible. I never look at my physical photos. They take up too much space and gather dust, so they are in boxes in my loft. I see digital photos all the time, both my own (on my devices) and my friends' and family's (on social media). It's so much easier to show someone a photo spontaneously when it's on your phone - who routinely carries photo albums around with them?

I write in cursive as well as typing. I’m not exactly sure of the science but I read somewhere that writing by hand uses your brain in a different way to typing and that can be useful when it comes to remembering information. I don’t think it’s a redundant skill.

I meant accessible to future generations. Technology moves on.

It's easier to handwrite if you're out of doors - screens are hard to read in bright light, plus a notepad is harder to damage than a tablet or whatever people use.

Yeah, I heard this when my kids started school 15 years ago but it's not happened. I also remember my Maths teacher saying it (as we looked in suitable awe at his large computer in a cupboard by itself) nearly 40 years ago.

There are some skills that have to be retained. Being able to write is one of them.

I meant accessible to future generations. Technology moves on.

True,.but these days there are usually ways of transferring things from an older format to a newer one.

I think more and more schools are moving away from pen and paper.

All our homework is google class,dojo,times table rock stars etc nothing is written. Even in school a lot of it is typed a lot of art recently has all been digital. My son hands in a lot of homework on minecraft so they are not even actually building or making things.

I have three monitors in the job I do. I rarely write anything on paper, if I do it’s for me to take notes and only I can read it. I’m 46 and at school there was a lot of emphasis on writing with a pen, jointed up writing, leaving spaces etc.
My dds are 12 and 10. Dd2’s writing is not great, but get her in a laptop/PC to write something and she’s great.
It’s going to be the future.

All our homework is google class,dojo,times table rock stars etc nothing is written.

In the primary schools I teach in, kids do loads of writing, in exercise books, on mini whiteboards, on pieces of work for wall displays. Far far more than they do on computers. They are surrounded by the written word.

My secondary age dc do complete and hand in most of their homework online, but that's still a lot less than what they do in school on paper. There aren't that many computer rooms, so it wouldn't be possible for them to do the majority of work on computers.

I did work in one school where students had laptops they were supposed to bring. It was a right pain. They were forever forgetting them, or bringing them in uncharged, or breaking them!

Dd2’s writing is not great, but get her in a laptop/PC to write something and she’s great.

My yr9 ds' writing isn't great. He's been told that if it doesn't improve he might have to do his GCSEs on a laptop in a separate room, which shocked him a bit! He spends plenty of time in front of a screen already, and is perfectly capable of improving his handwriting. He fully admits it's just laziness.

I think(hope) it will become less prescriptive and with less focus on neat and pretty.

I don't think it will ever stop being taught for a few reasons. The skills it involves and develops. The fact that even kids that had ipads since they were babies are still pretty shit and slow typers at primary age. I mean, sure ,they could be teaching touch typing instead of handwriting/mark making in early years and foundation stage but I seriously doubt it will be successful. Children will still have to be able to produce and show their work . Maths doesn't really work on a screen. You could adapt slightly but it's not as easy,quick or versatile as paper.

@Horst

I think more and more schools are moving away from pen and paper.

All our homework is google class,dojo,times table rock stars etc nothing is written. Even in school a lot of it is typed a lot of art recently has all been digital. My son hands in a lot of homework on minecraft so they are not even actually building or making things.

Was that the case before covid as well?

Yeah this was all precovid the main school is an eco school you see so they don’t send letters home, they don’t print out sheets for homework. The secondary well it’s a secondary they don’t want to barely let parents know they exist really. All school letters and contact is parent mail/parent pay/wise pay/expressions/satchel one. The amount of apps I have for three children coms and homework is a lot. One of my children have 8!! Users and passwords for her own various log ins for school for different maths/English/history/library/school computer system etc. that’s without my parent log ins for coms. Her school even let year 5/6 take mobiles into school.

In most schools I have seen there are always computers broken, or logins that don’t work or software that doesn’t work. You spend half the lesson just trying to get everyone to the same place.

IT professionals I know often still write down those huge numbers of logins and passwords we all need to remember. It’s far easier to guard the paper record - and know when it’s been stolen or tampered with so that they all need emergency resets - than to deal with lost memories.

Many IT and other projects start off with groups sitting around a whiteboard.

I write a letter to my sister using an ink pen on good quality paper about once every 9 or 10 weeks and she replies in same way. We both use laptops for most other things. I love both writing and receiving my letter.

I write all the time. Shopping lists, birthday cards, addresses, notes in work meetings, etc.

It would be very difficult to teach maths (beyond basic arithmetic) to someone who couldn't write. Ever tried putting an equation into Word? And I don't see teaching 10 year olds how to use LaTeX as a good idea (would be very hard to learn anyway if you didn't already know how to do it in writing). Almost all maths university students still write notes, either on paper or with a pen and tablet or similar.

And wouldn’t a lecture theatre be noisy if everyone was hammering g away on laptops?
Not in my experience no, I'd say the majority of people, including myself used laptops for notes on my university course.

@ParsleySageRosemary

In most schools I have seen there are always computers broken, or logins that don’t work or software that doesn’t work. You spend half the lesson just trying to get everyone to the same place.

IT professionals I know often still write down those huge numbers of logins and passwords we all need to remember. It’s far easier to guard the paper record - and know when it’s been stolen or tampered with so that they all need emergency resets - than to deal with lost memories.

Many IT and other projects start off with groups sitting around a whiteboard.

Since loads of IT work is remote now - and lots has been for a decade - we use digital tools to sit around a whiteboard and we type notes for those.

I actually type faster than I write.

The only things I write are birthday cards, addresses on envelopes and a few notes. Every year I have a couple of months where I don't write using a pen or pencil.

I'm actually having to practice writing because I need to show my DD to write. However all around her she sees older kids and adults writing on phones, tablets and laptops.