School report - to think this is a bit crap

[SlipperyLizard]

DD (year 7) got her end of term report, showing effort scores and (for the first time) a progress score. All subjects meeting or slightly above “expected” progress, but one subject was “below”. She had a test in this subject a couple of weeks ago and got 44/50.

I emailed teacher so I could get feedback on what DD needed to work on to be meeting expectations. Got told there was nothing to worry about as the report had been written before the recent test, and so progress was based on a test done in September (I.e. just after starting secondary when they did baseline knowledge tests).

AIBU to think the teacher could have based the progress mark on class & homework done since September, even if they couldn’t (for whatever reason) update the report to take the recent test into account?

Feels like teacher has just phoned it in.

@Mummy1608

(This is why I refuse to teach year 7 any more. Year 7 parents can be particularly helicoptery. If your child is happy and generally getting on fine, just leave them to it!)

You refuse to teach y7? And the school are OK with that are they? Er.... OK whatever

That would annoy me. YANBU.

@SlipperyLizard

I totally get where you're coming from & I speak as a teacher myself! It's ridiculous, unfair & lazy to grade a child's 'progress' at this point in the school year, based on an entry knowledge test conducted 6mths ago, before any of the subject in question had even been taught! The teacher has had plenty of class participation, assessments, homework, etc since then, on which to base a Spring term report.

I think this illustrates that whilst there some amazing teachers there are some who are very poor. Whilst some teachers are hardworking and want the best for their pupils, sadly the pandemic brought out the worst of some teachers who use the opportunity to do very little and continue to do as little as possible.

I wouldn't be impressed that a report in March is based on a test they did in September

My DS has done loads of tests recently, presumably in anticipation of a report soon

@lanthanum I get your point entirely. Unfortunately the schools I've worked at insist on setting the final target grade in year 10. It would be better to target grade 8 and then review as it becomes closer to year 11 exams. Schools seem to bind themselves up in their admin and tracking policies. E.g. in my last school as a teacher I wasn't allowed to change a students target grade without a meeting with senior mgt and then they usually said no.

It's worth noting that target grades are set using projected progress from year 7. If the target grade stays low and the student is doing well then the school will look better.

It's worth noting that target grades are set using projected progress from year 7. If the target grade stays low and the student is doing well then the school will look better

My school was opposite. They set target grades really high.

There were loads of 9’s as targets where l used to teach.

@twelly

I think this illustrates that whilst there some amazing teachers there are some who are very poor. Whilst some teachers are hardworking and want the best for their pupils, sadly the pandemic brought out the worst of some teachers who use the opportunity to do very little and continue to do as little as possible.

I can't speak for secondary but I can assure you in primary it's almost impossible to get away with doing very little because simply planning the lessons takes a huge chunk of time (and by planning I include getting resources ready, even if it's a lesson you have taught in a previous year). If you don't have enough work for a class, chaos will ensue. Stuff like reports is beyond the normal day-to-day workload and done entirely outside my 8-6 day. I don't think I work harder than any other professionals btw (or indeed anywhere near as hard as many) before that's thrown back at me, but I disagree that working 8-6 with several more weekend/evening hours for reports is some sort of skiving.

You need 2 scores to mark progress. The September score was the baseline, her level of attainment when she entered the school, before they started teaching her. She then needs another score so they can see how much she's improved, or not. Progress is the difference between the two scores.

As pp said, the second test needs to be taken early enough to be marked and moderated before writing the report. The teacher obviously has an idea of how much the student has improved through class and homework, but the powers that be require evidence in the form of of a formal test. Without it, the report grade is just a guesstimate.

Covid is still disrupting schools. The latest wave has resulted in v high numbers in secondaries. It's v possible that the test had to be rescheduled because of absences. Yes, it would have been helpful if they'd put a slip in the envelope to explain this, but, as above, covid disruption means extra work for everyone and they didn't. It would have been better for Op to wait for the parents' evening. Or her dd could have asked the teacher herself?
Y

I think the 'no bad surprises' policy should be set. So if a child gets a very low attainment grade, the parent should already know there's an issue with that subject.

I got issued a report for DD2 with a grade 1. It was catastrophic for her. Turns out it was based on one question but the damage has been done and she's fallen apart completely.

older kid, doing his gcses in a few weeks. Got his Dec. report card, where he got a 2 in English (scale 1-5). Mock gcse 7/8.
Parent's evening, asked about it. Teacher said that last year! he didn't participate in class and didn't do anything. 1. He was not in school, 2 this teacher never, ever opened a meeting. So who's fault is that he didn't participate???
New report card - English is now a merciful 3. second mock gcse result (early march) 8/9.
I usually advocate for teachers, love their profession, etc, but this one specimen can go and f* himself 3 times over.

some teachers do not deserve our respect, because they are shitty people doing their job in a shitty fashion. It has to be acknowledge, dealt with accordingly and then not give a rat's ass about their grades or opinion in the future.

some teachers do not deserve our respect, because they are shitty people doing their job in a shitty fashion. It has to be acknowledge, dealt with accordingly and then not give a rat's ass about their grades or opinion in the future

I was a teacher 26 years. I never met or worked with a ‘shitty’ teacher. They were all dedicated, over conscientious, hardworking and caring. All of them. It attracts a certain type of person, like l described.

Bet you’re a joy at parents evening.

I am a joy at parent's evening with all but 3 teachers. Ever in my life.

1. marked son's math homework wrong because he couldn't add up double digit numbers. Son showed it, we put a note to please amend as the marking is totally off and he scored 100% and he feels this is unfair. Teacher instead of saying "oops, you're right, I'll remark them, honest mistake" sent back a note that his marking is correct and out son doesn't know basic math. My son was in tears for days as he knew that he was correct on all questions. So had to go to HT to correct this mistake.
2. above mentioned english teacher. Basing a grade on something that happened 1 year ago, really, regardless of mock results?
3. current math teacher who had the audacity to tell me that she does not suggest further math for my son as he is not too good in math. He is a math genius who is bored out of his mind in class and under performs (you'll have to take my word for it that there is objective evidence of this - so pls don't make this a question point). If he still wants to take it up next year she will put a note on his A level admin papers that she is heavily against it. And she has said same/similar to my son in front of the whole class.

Imo she has no right. If a student wants to take up whatever subject at worst they will fail at it. She should not care more about her dept's statistics than the kids. She should be supportive and helping him, not berating him especially when he is more than able, just unmotivated. *

So please explain how in these 3 examples am I the villain?

And consider the context - for many reasons my son went to 3 primaries, a junior school and is in the senior part of same school. That is a lot of teachers and most I truly respected, some I accepted, but only hated these 3 (un)professionals

And example of a good math teacher from junior school: kid was disinterested as he knew the whole year's curriculum. 2 months in teacher called me as kid was massively failing. What he saw was that my kid got any concept extremely quickly, but many times failed with the basic addition part. And to him this was weird and he wanted to find out what was going on. I told him (expecting to be told off as being THAT parent) but he listened and tried to modify/personalize his lessons to the best of his abilities. Kid was learning about math history, new theorems, interesting logic problems... and all of a sudden he "learnt" how to do the basic things as well.
This is a good teacher.

So you asked and you found out that she is doing well. So.... what is your problem exactly??

Secondary teachers each teach something in the region of 200-300 students. We spend many hours writing reports. If even 5% of those parents wanted some "quick" extra clarification /feedback, and we gave them each 10 minutes, that would be another 2.5 hours, of just repeating ourselves!! Exactly. And for every parent that complains about silly things, it takes valuable time away from planning lessons. I don't think all parents realise this. And the longer we spend on reports (many many hours - many many reports!) the less time we have to spend planning lessons and making resources. It's never good enough!

He is a math genius who is bored out of his mind in class and under performs

Unlikely.

More likely your son has your interesting attitude and doesn't feel the need to work in class and therefore underperforms. Geniuses don't routinely underperform in exams. A one off, of course, but regularly not achieving smacks of him not being good enough.

She is right to put off students without an aptitude for maths. What child benefits from a U grade in A level maths? Nothing to do with school statistics and everything to do with not wasting 2 years of a students life.

3. current math teacher who had the audacity to tell me that she does not suggest further math for my son as he is not too good in math. He is a math genius who is bored out of his mind in class and under performs (you'll have to take my word for it that there is objective evidence of this - so pls don't make this a question point). If he still wants to take it up next year she will put a note on his A level admin papers that she is heavily against it. And she has said same/similar to my son in front of the whole class.
Imo she has no right. If a student wants to take up whatever subject at worst they will fail at it. She should not care more about her dept's statistics than the kids.
She should be supportive and helping him, not berating him especially when he is more than able, just unmotivated

Maybe he’s not good enough? I taught A level for 25 years. Some students aren’t capable of following a subject further. We frequently wouldn’t let people onto my A level course. They have to be capable of passing.

@Thymeout

You need 2 scores to mark progress. The September score was the baseline, her level of attainment when she entered the school, before they started teaching her. She then needs another score so they can see how much she's improved, or not. Progress is the difference between the two scores.

As pp said, the second test needs to be taken early enough to be marked and moderated before writing the report. The teacher obviously has an idea of how much the student has improved through class and homework, but the powers that be require evidence in the form of of a formal test. Without it, the report grade is just a guesstimate.

Covid is still disrupting schools. The latest wave has resulted in v high numbers in secondaries. It's v possible that the test had to be rescheduled because of absences. Yes, it would have been helpful if they'd put a slip in the envelope to explain this, but, as above, covid disruption means extra work for everyone and they didn't. It would have been better for Op to wait for the parents' evening. Or her dd could have asked the teacher herself?
Y

There is no parents’ evening, that was in December when (apart from the low attainment in baseline scores) no issues were raised.

I think most 12 year olds would be a little deflated to get a “below” grade two weeks after getting 44/50, and my job as a parent is to help her understand why.

You helped her find out why; because the reports were written before the next assessment.

[quote Queuing4Fergs]@Mummy1608 it is not "helicoptery" to query something about your child's progress at school and to want to engage with the school on it. I hope to Christ you're not a teacher at my children's school. In fact I suggest you resign from the profession altogether as you clearly have nothing but contempt for the parents of the students you teach [/quote]
As has been explained in simple words reports, especially in High Schools, are written usually about 3 weeks before they are sent home. Why do parents, especially of Year 7 who are still in Primary School mode, think they can query every little thing they don't like? A teacher in HIgh School will interact with maybe 150 pupils in a week, if every set of parents expected them to take time out to address queries there would be no teaching time left, that's what Parents' Evenings are for, to clarify points in the report. Some parents have a very selfish attitude, Me, Me Me , damn the other 149.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

some teachers do not deserve our respect, because they are shitty people doing their job in a shitty fashion. It has to be acknowledge, dealt with accordingly and then not give a rat's ass about their grades or opinion in the future

I was a teacher 26 years. I never met or worked with a ‘shitty’ teacher. They were all dedicated, over conscientious, hardworking and caring. All of them. It attracts a certain type of person, like l described.

Bet you’re a joy at parents evening.

For 'teacher' you can replace it with 'parents' who have the very easy job of dealing with only a few children. It was my experience that the parents who had this attitude were the parents who were failing in their role and looking for an easy scapegoat. Recognise yourself there?

Irrespective of the content of a school report, some people on here will defend it.

Criticism of a single teacher or even a single part of a teacher's practise is seen as an attack on the entire profession.

There are good and bad teachers like there are in any job. I had teachers that went above and beyond any expectations. I also had ones that literally put on a tv show every class, let us play card games instead of working etc. Yes, this was 20 years ago, and I doubt anyone could get away with this now, but its as nonsense to assume every teacher is amazing, as to assume they are all rubbish.

@JudgeJ- 15 or 20 minutes at most per subject at Parents’ Evening held once or twice a year is not enough feedback for many parents. Providing more detailed information to parents would help the home/school partnership. This would be especially helpful in core subjects, but not for minor subjects meeting 1x or 2x per fortnight.

Wow my comment touched a few nerves there! As a pp said, trust the process. The teachers know how to help your child and there's no rush in year 7, still many years before gcse. I don't have contempt for the parents of my students, I'm a mum myself. But I do think some of them are misguided (fewer by about year 9). If you keep querying the lower grades, especially in this slightly confrontational way then I can tell you that your DD's teachers will just whitewash the grades in future for an easy life. Then when the first big assessment comes up, it'll be a nasty shock and you'll wonder why she underperformed compared to the flattering progress grades. I've seen it countless times.

Yes @itloggedmeoutagain I haven’t taught year 7 or 8 for eleven years now. I teach a shortage subject and I'm valued for my GCSE and A level teaching. If I got given several younger classes, I'd just go find another job as my subject is shortage

(By touching the nerve, I didn't mean the OP but the commenter who suggested I resigned from teaching lol)