Why can’t the doctors help with this?

[Buffalostance89]

Dd, almost 4, has been having tummy ache on and off since October. Wasn’t very regularly at first, but has become worse the last month or so.
She now has tummy ache after everything she eats, regardless of what it is, there’s no pattern to the food. She has excess gas, poos fairly regularly but says it’s hard to loo sometimes. I’ve used gentle laxatives, gas drops…she’s had a stomach scan, poo analysis and urine analysis-all clear.
It’s getting to the point where she’s worried to eat now and is hungry 🥲
Her behaviour is becoming affected and she jumps around, is hyper, bites cushions etc, so obviously in pain.
I have another appointment on Monday where I’m going to go nuts if they fob me off with saying stomach aches are normal at this age etc and tests are clear.
Has anyone had similar to this, so awful to see her like this, getting desperate now 🙏

Get her tested for coeliac disease

@Ikeameatballs If it’s chronic constipation, is there a reason for it, or just one of those things?
Even with this laxative given by the chemist, she’s done poos, but will often do one, then do another later and then one, so I’m not sure she’s getting the whole lot out.
My hope is it’s a simple as constipation, although not nice for her, easier to solve I imagine. No idea why she’s getting constipated though

Lots of possibilities and agree with PP re testing for coeliac disease and considering possibility of lactose intolerance or chronic constipation.

One of mine had similar and it turned out to be gastrointestinal parasites (not Giardia but a bit like Giardia). Cleared up very quickly with appropriate treatment.

There will be an answer to this, sometimes it can take time to get there though. Hope you get things sorted soon for her.

There's a cmpa page on Facebook you may find helpful for an allergy. CMPA main support group.

A lot of the symptoms your daughter is having sound like an allergy even the hyperactive one. When my DD eats something she's allergic too her nappies are runny, she's bloated, gassy, refluxy, and her mood can go from great to full blown meltdown acting out type.

A lot of foods have products they are derived from milk and it can take up to 6 weeks for it to leave your child's system before they have less symptoms.

I'd still ask to be referred to a gastro paediatrician but I found the only way we got a diagnosis was to be admitted to the paediatric ward and because the nurses could see how my DD was struggling the doctors listened

Dulcoease is a stool softner, I am more familiar with movicol but they do the same job and I would have thought the softner is the best option but I suspect she is not having enough of it. I think you should ask the GP to try movicol as you can increase it until she goes.
The stool softer will be taking water from other parts of her body and shifting it to the bowel so its very important she gets lots of water.

I’d recommend reading the book Up: Understanding How Food Affects Your Child and What You Can Do About It [[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1741667259/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_8G6TPZKNRWEQNS6H6PQF?tag=mumsnetforu03-21 Fed Up by Sue Dengate]]

@HiKelsey But I *think the hyperactivity/craziness etc is because her stomach hurts? To get relief? She jumps on the sofa on her tummy and sometimes bites us 🥲it’s all get relief I think, it’s so horrible for her but also very hard for us to cope with. I’ve been giving her paracetamol medicine and hot water bottles but it doesn’t seem to help much.

Link fail 🤦🏼‍♀️ Fed Up

@pinkunicorns54

If it is an allergy to milk, it will take a number of weeks to leave her system - rather than just avoiding for a day or two. Not sure if it's the same for other allergies of just milk proteins.

Yes, coeliac disease is the same - aside of the fact that you'd be surprised how many foods have gluten (not just breads, pastas, cakes etc, includes a lot of sauces, some meat, even some soft drinks), it also takes quite a while of not eating any gluten before symptoms improve (up to 6 months in fact).

*All to get relief

OP I had stomach as a child. Was told constipation. The pain was gas. I was diagnosed coeliac as an adult and moved to a gluten free diet, but the pain and gas only stopped when I had colon irrigation and cleared out all the old gluten from my small intestine.
I really think worth talking to the doctor about whether she is having enough stool softners as I think she might need more. When you get constipated your bowel can stretch and the passage becomes a waiting room and the muscles loose their strength as they are over stretched. So stools hang around and the toxins get absorbed back into the body while the stools are hanging around. But this area is meant to be a hallway. An increase in stool softners returns the passage back to a hallway with everything passing through. Eventually the muscles start working again, the area tightens up and things become as they should be.

My son has various allergies and acts exactly how you describe if he's eaten something even down to the biting cushions (or jumpers or cardboard!). He has oral allergy syndrome especially to raw carrots. Reflux as a result.
Have you tried either elimination diets or giving some piriton liquid daily to see if that improves things?
Does sound like she needs referring now though poor thing.

I was backwards & forwards to the doctors with ds complaining of tummy pains only to be dismissed. It took him being so poorly that we went straight from the surgery to the hospital where he was admitted & diagnosed with total impaction, he had to have enemas to clear the blockage & I have never seen so much poo come out of an 8 year old, it took nearly a week to get rid of all of it where he had to wear nappies because he couldn't control it. Has your dc got autism or ADHD? Both can cause bowel problems & the behaviour of being frightened to eat could be connected. Trust your instincts & keep shouting until you are heard.

Hi what a worry as a parent but my son has similar issues in the past and I really struggled to get him well and we kept a food diary. Try bottled water only even in the teas and absolutely no tap water. In the morning hot water fresh lemon juice mixed with parsley and manuka honey or fresh mint leaves with honey. No cans of pop as it’s too gassy. Fresh fruit juice in a juicer try watermelon as it’s light on the stomach and veg try some grapes organic if possible. Drs will never admit it could be allergies or food intolerances so it’s a waste of time with them. Try getting your daughter to have a warm to hot bath after food wheh she has tummy pain and a hot water bottle on her tummy as it helped my son. I had to get him digestive enzymes which he took every time he ate as he had malabsorption issues and couldn’t digest food very well. When you keep a food diary leave nothing out put in every ingredient. If it’s bread read every ingredient in that bread and include it in the diary. Try no sugar, no wheat, no gluten and no dairy it worked for my son and all his symptoms calmed down. Get some vitamin D drops from Holland and Barrett as it’s easily digested. If after 14 or 28 days nothings working you need full blood tests for coeliac and especially iron levels and B12
Levels. My son had low iron so I had to get him a liquid iron supplement from the health food store and also he had a low B12 so he takes B100 which has helped. I hope your daughter starts to feel better soon.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything. I have Crohn's disease - I was diagnosed aged 20, but had clear Crohn's symptoms from 12. HOWEVER I had bowel and other issues (juvenile arthritis) at a much younger age. When I was little it manifested as constipation, then went in the opposite direction later on.

Things like Crohn's can present atypically in children is my point. There is very little understanding of this among doctors.

Also, uveitis (inflammation in the eyes) can happen with Crohn's too so her eye issues could be connected to your daughter's bowel issues. Look out for joint pain and skin rashes which can also be connected.

Her eye issues could also be nothing to do with it and it be nothing even close to Crohn's!

Testing for Crohn's is quite invasive and best avoided if possible (colonoscopies etc), but they should do some bloods - ESR and CRP to look for inflammation, and maybe also test proteins and B12 levels to check for absorption issues. These aren't perfect and cannot diagnose or rule out something like Crohn's, but can inform next steps.

It took a long time for me to be diagnosed and along the way we considered:

• allergies to dairy (elimination diets take several weeks to show their effect (4-6) so skipping dairy for one day won't achieve anything. Also, elimination diets in children should always be supervised by a doctor so don't just cut stuff out on your own)
• tested for coeliacs (blood test is decent, but only a biopsy can fully rule it out)
• checked for bacteria (stool analysis),
• and also considered IBS.

The other thing is that bowel issues can be a sign or anxiety or other issues (e.g. abuse) in children, so please do check her general wellbeing and that she is safe. Sorry if that's not easy to hear, but it does need to be at least considered.

It should also be noted that ultrasounds are next to useless in these situations. They can rule out e.g. a mass or a blockage (good to know of course!), but give pretty much no further insight.

At 5 the priority will be not to hurt her through unnecessary testing and I do agree with that. Keeping a diary of food, symptoms, and what she's been doing each day will help to build a picture without testing though.

@Nat6999 I don’t think she has ADHD or autism, she’s only starting to look worried to eat now as she knows the stomach ache will come from eating, previously was great with food, no issues at all

My guess would be lactose intolerance. Try cutting it out for around ten days. If it's not that, no harm done.

There are so many things it coud be op.

You do need to keep pressing them for answers.

Tell them she is in constant agony after eating, go to A and E during her attacks, because there is so much investigating to be done.

She does need tests.

In the meantime, you say she is on a high fibre diet, many people with stomach problems cannot tolerate high fibre.
Try a soluble fibre diet, eliminate seeds, pips, and grains, and the hard to digest foods.

Some gasto doctors specialise in motility problems, concerning how the food moves, which can be due to muscles in the digestive system itself.
Which is another avenue to go down if the conventional tests show nothing.

Ask to be refered to a dietician aswell, they can work along side the doctors and hopefully give suggestions whist she is being investigated.

Remember even if she is pooing she can still be constipated, even if she has diarrhea.

Could I ask. you say her eye's hurt, does she have a lazy eye at all ? one that droops more than the other ?

Is she tall or short for her age ?

@Onthedunes She doesn’t have a high fibre diet, but enough fibre that I’m not sure why she’d be constipated.
No lazy eye and average height for her age I’d say. She’s slim though but always has been, why do you ask?

There's a medical condition where the body can't process complex carbohydrates properly.

Below is a short summary of one the resulting issu from this

When the undigested carbohydrates reach the colon, the bacteria that normally live in the colon ferment them. This fermentation often results in the production of gas – similar to the production of bubbles in the fermenting of grapes into champagne. The buildup of gas in the colon results in discomfort, bloating, and sometimes pain.

I would definitely get a coeliac test the GP can do this for you. Could possibly be a cows milk allergy too as these tend to go hand in hand with coeliac.

www.coeliac.org.uk/is-it-coeliac-disease/

Thought this might help

Op I've sent you a pm.

It’s possible that the vomiting bug you all had wiped out her ‘good’ bacteria and her bacterial levels are off in her gut.

Constipation can cause problems with urination and you can get loose stools (overflow) but still be chronically constipated.

Allergy screening would be helpful too. I have IBS and I started with my symptoms as a child and it would often flare up after eating. The pain was intense, I also suffered with frequent UTI’s and cystitis. I wasn’t diagnosed until my early twenties. I always found that rich food or food high in fat and protein (lasagne was a classic) always set me off. I had a lot of chicken noodle soup as often it was the only thing I could eat!

Keep pushing for a paediatrician, you know her best and that this isn’t just a typical tummy ache.

Lots of gas is a feature of constipation anyway I think, all that food fermenting and decomposing with nowhere to go is bound to produce gas. The different coloured stools would be familiar to me as food isn't being properly digested.

@Apileofballyhoo

Yes it can cause SIBO

The gut flora is affected.