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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do people keep dangerous dogs???

490 replies

Ori18 · 31/03/2022 10:23

Another little boy pronounced dead this morning on the news - the toddler who was mauled on Monday and subsequently suffered a cardiac arrest. The dogs in question are not thought to be banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act - but I'd be interested to know which breeds they were as it's quite evident that certain breeds are more dangerous to children than others - why aren't Rottweiler's on the banned list for example?

And even though Pitt Bull Terriers are banned, people still go out of their way to own them, and are then shocked when they attack small children, maul babies, tear limbs off people. It makes me so angry. Same goes for German Shepherds and Staffordshire Bull Terriers. The Bull Terrier dogs are/were specifically bred for fighting - why would you even consider having one of these types of dogs around a baby or a small child? What is going on there? Is it lack of intelligence? Lack of education? Lack of giving a fuck? Because I think there need to be more dogs on the banned list, and heavier penalties served to people who insist on breaking the law to keep these dogs.

Aggressive/dangerous dogs and babies/small children do not mix, should never be mixed and it shouldn't take more deaths for the law to change around this. AIBU?

OP posts:
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6
RMS0209 · 31/03/2022 15:21

@TiddleyWink

A ‘clown’ who has no interest in owning a large dog which she and many of us do indeed find hideous, unpleasant, anti social and frightening. It’s ok that you don’t but other peoples opinions on dogs are just as valid as yours.
Yes correct a "clown" Well that's wonderful you are entitled to your weird opinion as I am to mine. I now think you both are clowns! Smile As you say... everybody's opinion is valid Now bye bye tiddleywink X
TiddleyWink · 31/03/2022 15:23

I’m not sure why having different opinions about liking dogs makes me ignorant?

I do find dogs hideous, they repulse me. That’s just my feelings.

Some people feel that way about kids, it’s called being different. Difference being, my kids don’t pose a threat to other people and their children every time we try and leave our house for some fresh air. Much as I’d love for other peoples’ dogs to be totally irrelevant to me, that’s sadly not possible.

I don’t like dogs - that doesn’t make me ignorant or anything else. Sorry if my opinion offends you but it’s valid and I’m entitled to express it without being insulted. In fact I’d say an inability to understand that people are different and like different things is what shows ignorance!

Katiekat84 · 31/03/2022 15:27

@TiddleyWinkddley
Your opinion really isn't valid because you are far far more likely to be attacked and killed by a human than a dog. Google how many kids have been killed in the UK and compare how many were killed by their parents just like you.

Just because some kids have been killed by their mother and father does that mean that you shouldn't leave your child be in the same room as an adult that you trust?

TiddleyWink · 31/03/2022 15:32

[quote Katiekat84]@TiddleyWinkddley
Your opinion really isn't valid because you are far far more likely to be attacked and killed by a human than a dog. Google how many kids have been killed in the UK and compare how many were killed by their parents just like you.

Just because some kids have been killed by their mother and father does that mean that you shouldn't leave your child be in the same room as an adult that you trust?[/quote]
People are my species and make up the society I live in. Sadly some pose significant risk and I do everything in my power to mitigate that risk - accepting that I can’t remove it entirely. If there was a person who I could not communicate with or reason with on a human level then no, I would not leave them in a room with my child.

Dogs are not the same species as us. They do not form the community in which I live. It is not essential that I and my child interact with them in the way it is humans. So my personal choice to mitigate that (I’m my view unnecessary) risk is to stay away from dogs and never allow my child to be in a room alone with one.

I don’t see that risks from humans and risks from dogs are really comparable, for the above reasons.

Dog lovers will defend them to the death and be downright nasty to people who don’t like dogs, so it’s a pointless argument which I won’t bother continuing with. I just think it’s a shame that the nasty, belligerent dog owners like some on this thread give others a bad name.

RMS0209 · 31/03/2022 15:34

@Katiekat84 don't even waste your time, not worth it
That's why I didn't reply x

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 31/03/2022 15:36

@DrDinosaur

Loads of people protesting there are no 'dangerous breeds'. Link to list of fatal dog attacks in uk including the breed. Complete lack of poodles, labradors, and chihuahuas on list. Multiple rottweilers, pitbulls etc on list. Still loads of people insisting its nothing to do with the breeds.
Because it's down to the people who own/train the dogs. Of course some dogs do more damage than others due to size but it is the owners at fault.

If someone on a skateboard knocks somone over it's not as likely to cause as much damage as somone hitting you with thier car. Does that mean the car is to blame and everyone should only use skateboards? No. The driver is at fault.

teaandtoastwithmarmite · 31/03/2022 15:36

My DH and his three siblings grew up with a staffy. They had her since puppyhood though and he said the other night he would never consider buying an adult one and bringing it into a house with a little one.

VampireMoney · 31/03/2022 15:38

I don’t see that risks from humans and risks from dogs are really comparable, for the above reasons.

You're right, they're not comparable because whilst you can keep your kids away from dogs you can't keep them away from other humans, and humans kill more people than dogs do.

Katiekat84 · 31/03/2022 15:39

@TiddleyWink

I disagree, dogs are absolutely part of our society and you cannot avoid them entirely unless you literally lock your kids up and don't let them leave the house. You are doing them a disservice by not teaching them how to be around dogs safely.
If they are terrified of dogs and run away for example a dog on the street could mistake it for a game and chase them.

The fact is your kids are far more likely to be killed by a human.... and that human is often a parent or someone close to the child.

1 child a WEEK dies in the UK due to abuse and neglect by humans.

I couldn't get the comparable number for attacks by dogs but 22 people were killed as a result of dog attacks in England and Wales between 2013 and 2019..... so it's significantly lower.

WiddlinDiddlin · 31/03/2022 15:43

The whole 'nanny' breed thing pisses me right off.

For a start, that originated with dogs that were bred to fight other dogs in the pit. To understand this you have to know this 'sport' was rather like boxing - dogs were matched against one another in timed rounds - split up by a person/persons getting in the ring with them and splitting them physically, and re-matching them.

Winners were determined on points for holding, still being game, still standing etc etc (not in fact on whether one killed the other).

That meant that the dogs HAD to be absolutely handleable by people in the middle of a fight, in a pit, surrounded by yelling humans, probably whilst also injured. They also had to tolerate being stitched up without anaesthetic.

That meant that no matter how good a fighter your dog was, if it wouldn't be safe to handle in the pit or out of it, it was worthless, so it wasn't bred from.

And that selected for dogs with an incredibly high pain threshold, that were incredibly people friendly and tolerant of all sorts of handling.

Most of these dogs also lived in the family home - again, dogs that were a danger around the kids were less likely to be bred from and more likely to be killed.

But that is in the past, there are very very few dog fighting rings like this now and they're so underground not only would you never know where but you'd never meet their dogs anywhere in public either. (good.. but..).

Now, instead of this we have a new breed of macho dickhead who wants to parade around with his dog slavering at the end of a chain, who will meet another dickhead in the park and let their dogs off in the secure kids play area or tennis court to rip chunks out of one another for the sake of kudos, ego, some weird sort of self defence... who knows.

There is NO selective breeding for that super tolerant, super human friendly nature, amongst these unregistered, non-pedigree 'type' dogs.

Just a willingness to use aggression - and yes the owners of these dogs will indeed tolerate being bitten themselves in the course of handling and 'training' these dogs.

It is these dogs that are being sold in pubs, sold as guard dogs to be kept chained in the yard, sold as protection dogs to keep someones drug stash safe. It is these dogs that are bred from and sold cheap in the free ads or by word of mouth. Often, these dogs are sold on when the original owner realises they've fucked up and can't handle the dog.

To put that earlier list of cases into context:

Kellie Lynch was walking two potentially underfed Rottweilers with her friend - two little girls with a pair of dogs that outweighed them both put together. She went for a wee and the dogs came over and her laughs and then shrieks triggered a predatory response. Who knows how they had been trained or raised, but it was the 80's so probably not aversive free (they were walked on choke collars as was almost every dog back then).

David Kearney and his friends climbed into a yard with potentially 4 Rottweilers in it, to taunt the dogs (they claimed they were going after the ball but later admitted that wasn't true). The dogs were unsocialised and alone. The paper reports the boys didn't know the dogs were there but I find that impossible, there is no way those dogs in a 30ft yard did not bark or make their presence known before the boys climbed in!

Cadey-Lee Deacon was unsupervised in a room two unsocialised Rottweiler guard dogs had access to. Another contributory factor is that the dogs owner was not present, the dogs lived on the flat roof of the pub.

Archie-Lee Hirst - was in the care of his 16 year old aunt, as were two other children aged 6 and 7. The 7 year old took Archie-Lee out to see the new dog who was tied up in the yard. She had been bought from a pub as a guard dog, and the seller said she wasn't good with kids and the children were all told not to go near her. The 16 year old ran out of the house and tried to stop the attack and could not. This was again an unsocialised, under exercised, untrained dog with a known issue around children.

James Rehill - it is almost certain that he collapsed/had a stroke/had a fit and his dog freaked out and was trying to wake him (there are other examples of this happening with other breeds too).

So in all but one of those cases, children were with dogs, without their adult owner, dogs were unsocialised, poorly trained, poorly housed etc etc.

The common denominator here is not the breed, but the way these dogs were raised, handled, housed and bred.

Katiekat84 · 31/03/2022 15:45

@WiddlinDiddlin

100% agree.
No such thing as bad dogs only bad owners.

I love my dog with all my heart but I don't leave my child alone with him for both of their protection.

greenbirdsong · 31/03/2022 15:46

My neighbours have just acquired an American bull and it's a status symbol to them.
To me it seems an aggressive dog, lots of angry growling and barking and I don't think they know what they're doing with it.

Having a young child it does scare me being in the neighbouring garden after recent news reports of young children being attacked.

But I do think that it's difficult to "ban" a specific breed and generally 'bad' dogs are down to bad owners who don't know how to look after/train them/stimulate them effectively.

TiddleyWink · 31/03/2022 15:47

You are doing them a disservice by not teaching them how to be around dogs safely.

Why on earth are you assuming that I’m not? I said I wouldn’t leave them alone in a room with a dog. Where have I indicated that I’m not teaching them to behave appropriately around a dog?

Sadly I am forced to do this because contrary to the poster above who says I can keep my kids away from dogs, we’re usually approached by several off lead dogs every time we go out for a walk, to a park etc. Sometimes very excitable, licking or jumping up at us. I only wish I had the option to keep myself and my kids away from dogs!!

beenaroundtheblox · 31/03/2022 15:56

@Nincomepoop

More children are run over than killed by dogs. Due in car accidents than killed by dogs. Should we ban automobiles?

Worse yet, more children are killed by their parents each year than by dogs. Why do we allow parents to keep their kids?

Millions of pounds is pumped into trying to make driving safer every year. Driving is an absolute necessity. Keeping dangerous dogs isn't!!
Katiekat84 · 31/03/2022 15:58

How can you possibly show them how to behave correctly towards a dog when you are so openly disgusted, repulsed and terrified of them?
It's a real shame some of my best memories as a kid was the bond I had with my animals and getting to pet those cute excited dogs out on walks it was the best part of my day.
Of course there is danger in it but I was far more likely to be killed by the human walking the dog than the dog itself.

Teaching me to love and respect animals is the greatest gift my parents gave me.

mumto2teenagers · 31/03/2022 16:00

I'm genuinely curious to know - the posters who have a big dog - would you happily leave your baby/toddler ALONE in a room with your dog? Seriously, an honest question. Would you feel comfortable with this?

We have a staffie (rescue) and a staffie cross (had as a puppy). In answer to your question, no I would not leave either of them alone in a room with a baby/toddler, I would not leave ANY dog alone in a room with a baby/toddler.

Our DD's are both adults and were late teens when we got the rescue staffie, but my niece and nephew who are younger do visit. I do genuinely believe that staffies make good family pets as long as their needs are met (well trained, sufficient exercise, etc) and also believe in most cases problems with dogs are down to the owners. Children should be taught how to behave around dogs, pulling their ears, etc is completely unacceptable.

TiddleyWink · 31/03/2022 16:03

@Katiekat84

How can you possibly show them how to behave correctly towards a dog when you are so openly disgusted, repulsed and terrified of them? It's a real shame some of my best memories as a kid was the bond I had with my animals and getting to pet those cute excited dogs out on walks it was the best part of my day. Of course there is danger in it but I was far more likely to be killed by the human walking the dog than the dog itself.

Teaching me to love and respect animals is the greatest gift my parents gave me.

I’m an adult and am capable of keeping my feelings in check and modelling calm confidence to my children when needed. I strongly believe it’s crucial to teach them to stay calm and act appropriately round dogs because they are just everywhere these days. Doesn’t mean I’m happy about it but it is what it is!

It’s great that you love animals and I totally understand that many people do. But everyone is different and not everyone gets the same pleasure from them that you do - that’s fine too. I just don’t appreciate being called ignorant and insulted because I don’t agree that dogs are the best thing since sliced bread.

wetotter · 31/03/2022 16:07

It’s like having a conversation about obesity and someone coming along to say they eat a Big Mac every day and they’re still a healthy weight therefore fast food must be healthy

But would you then just ban 4 types of burger, and ignore all the other calorie dense foods? Or would you realise that partial bans (even if you add more to the list) don't work, and the real problem is with the people who are making the crap food choices?

VampireMoney · 31/03/2022 16:07

Millions of pounds is pumped into trying to make driving safer every year. Driving is an absolute necessity. Keeping dangerous dogs isn't!!

Transportation is an absolute necessity. Driving isn't. I've managed perfectly well not driving my entire adult life. As long as public transport exists, driving your own car is a luxury not a necessity.

wetotter · 31/03/2022 16:09

I'm genuinely curious to know - the posters who have a big dog - would you happily leave your baby/toddler ALONE in a room with your dog? Seriously, an honest question. Would you feel comfortable with this?

I think there is strong unity of opinion that you don't leave a baby/toddler alone with any dog

Mickarooni · 31/03/2022 16:11

You cannot compare road traffic collisions to dog injuries! I can teach my children road safety but I cannot control if there’s numpty driving dangerously. I can decide not to invite a big old dog to live into our home while my children are small. If you want one, why not wait?

CounsellorTroi · 31/03/2022 16:14

If I had a big dog I wouldn’t leave it alone with a baby. Or a toddler, because I’d be worried about a toddler pulling the dog’s ears or tail.

FTEngineerM · 31/03/2022 16:14

I'm genuinely curious to know - the posters who have a big dog - would you happily leave your baby/toddler ALONE in a room with your dog? Seriously, an honest question. Would you feel comfortable with this?

I had a Rottie and 2u2 and they were never, ever alone together.
Same with any dog, the toddler doesn’t have the capacity to interpret dog body language

MiniTheMinx · 31/03/2022 16:16

@VampireMoney

And you’re mental thinking a toy companion breed is a friendly family dog. Some of the nastiest dogs I’ve met have been “toy dogs” sure they’ll do less damage but they usually have an attitude problem. I’d take a Rottie over toy dog anyday.

Absolutely this. The only dogs I've ever been attacked by were toy breeds. Is the fact they do less damage ok then??

Tell that to 4 year old me who had her lip ripped open by a chihuahua and needed several stitches and now has a scar. But it's ok because it didn't kill me eh. Or my DD when she was 2 as we walked past a Jack Russell minding our own business the dog turned on the lead and bit the back of her leg. She needed a couple of stitches. But that's ok because it's not too much damage eh.

This ^

I think we need also to dispel some myths and ignorance about Staffordishire bull terriers. Firstly, they are not big dogs. The pure bred staffie is between 13 and 16" in height, and between 11kg and 17kg. By no means are they a large breed dog. Unfortunately there are a lot, and I mean a lot of cross breeds being sold as 'staffies' these dogs have other dogs bred into them. When I think about it, it was around the time that Pit Bulls become a banned dog that I started to see a lot of very large cross breed dogs that looked a little like a staffie but was much larger. You see these dogs advertised on gum tree and other sites as being staffies, and of course they are not from professional breeders and they are not KC registered. It is the proliferation of these dogs, and the type of person buying them that has led to staffies now having a bad reputation. The problem with calling for Staffies to be banned is that you would be banning the wrong dogs! It would easy to have a classification based on the breed standard that banned Staffordshire bull terriers whilst letting these badly bred mixes to continue to proliferate.

bouquetofpeonies · 31/03/2022 16:16

I know it's a cliché to say that it's about the owner, but for most dogs it really is. Some dogs have the potential to be dangerous, but tbh dogs like Dobermans or Rottweilers are not the family pet that most people go for.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers are probably the biggest exception to this. A popular dog, but one with a very bad rap. With this one, it really comes down to the owner. All of the SBT's I know are lovely friendly family dogs. Same with German Shepherds (I didn't actually realise they were considered 'dangerous'). Because the owners specifically raised them to be friendly.

On the other hand, my uncle and aunt adopted a Labrador puppy (the quintessential family dog), and the poor thing was so traumatised by bad owners that she attacked my uncle and left him with an awful bite on his arm. The meanest dogs I've come across were my grandmother and aunt's rough collies. Although I do realise that they are physically much less powerful than bull terriers.

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