To think amusement parks should publish weight limits?

[oovetolove]

I'm so sad and sickened by the death of Tyree Samson. Such a sad tragedy.

What I am shocked about is that I have visited many, many attractions and never have a seen a weight limit except at a local trampoline park.

It never even occurred to me that if over a certain weight it means the ride could fail you.

They have analysed the manufacturers manual for this ride and it states if the person doesn't fit the contours do not let them ride - the weight limits was 287 pounds and tyre was 350.

People have criticised the attendants and said they should have turned him away, but it would be difficult to know who is too overweight for the ride in every case just by looking. People carry weight differently.
. It's unfair to criticise the staff for this I feel. There should be a black and white way to tell if someone is overweight - not make it grey/subjective.

To solve this - why not just put weight limits in big bold letters and then it's up to the person to know if they're too heavy to ride? Individuals themselves know their weight better than park attendants.

It's ridiculous that I have never seen weight limits??worrying is this because of the taboo society we have become when weight is involved? It could have saved that boy.

AIBU to think we should be much more explicit about weight limits on rides or any other situation where someone could die as a result?

@SuperheroBirds

As someone who is fairly fat, I would love it if theme parks published weight and chest measurement limits on their websites. That way I could make an informed decision before I go. It would probably mean that I went on more rides as I’d have the confidence that I would fit, and it would eliminate any embarrassment from any I couldn’t/shouldn’t fit on. A lot do it for height, so why not include other measurements.

Thorpe Park do post chest measurements but it's for Caucasian men.

I was significantly under their chest measurements but because of female weight distribution couldn't ride as the harness wouldn't fit, my partner, Caucasian male was 6 stone heavier and 1 cm under the chest measurements and fitted fine.

They should also have a room (Away from crowds) where people can try seats before attempting to ride. The fat chair outside the queue is often broken/not accurate

I’ve been on a similar ride to that poor boy. Despite being nearly half his weight at the time, my thighs are “sturdy” and the problem was not so much the bucket seat, but the thing which sits between your thighs ended up pushing everything else up which in turn out pressure elsewhere.

A simple weight test would not have been enough in that instance, although I note he would’ve been too tall for the ride I went on. By an inch… if 8 year olds can “stand tall”, I’m sure a 14 year old can slouch.

The difficulty in publishing weight is that the safety is mostly about harness fit before the weight limits

For example I'm lighter than my friend but because of where my weight sits vs the harnesses I have a harder time on rides than she does. I'm probably well under the maximum weight but wouldn't be safely in some rides

Walt disney is a good example where some have calf restraints (eg flight of passage) no good if you carry weight on legs, some have lap bars so no good with big tummys, some have chest fastenings which are no good for people with broad chests eg nfl builds. Each ride needs to have test seats (most do) and have the fit throughly checked

I think the priority is about the harness fitting safely regardless of weight (the photos of this guy in the ride show the harness wasn't safe for his shape regardless of his weight).

You don't want people to be arguing they are under the weight if the harness isn't fitted right.

The weight thing would have to be discretely managed in rare occasions (like water rides as discussed above) but I imagine it's unusual that the harness fits when their weight is over on standard rides

I've not been able to find the actual footage of the incident so am unable to give a full opinion of what happened, but it would appear that the seat restraint didn't fit the deceased's body. I am unclear at what point he actually parted company with the ride so my findings are preliminary at best.

My view is that responsibility should be shared equally between the deceased, their parent/guardian, the person operating the ride, the ride manufacturer and the theme park operator.

The theme park operator and ride manufacturer should have put processes in place to ensure this sort of thing couldn't happen. It's perfectly foreseeable that someone will be an inappropriate size to go on the ride and clearly there wasn't a reliable way to discriminate between those who were suitable and those who weren't.

It's not just a case of weight limits, because if (as I understand it) the seat restraint didn't fit the deceased properly, that is an issue of body dimensions not just weight.

The person operating the ride is at fault too, because they didn't check whether everyone was suitably secured before starting the ride. It looks like they realised after the ride started but either chose not to stop it or were unable to.

The deceased and their parent/guardian are also partly to blame, because everyone should know that when you go on a ride like this accidents sometimes happen. Theme park rides are violent - that's why they are exciting - but this violence can cause life-ending and life-changing injuries. There will always be a chance something will go wrong, if you're not prepared to take the risk then don't get on the ride.

This message perhaps needs spelling out more clearly on the ticket. I've not been to a theme park for a long time but have been to motor racing events in the past few years, where the ticket always carries a warning that it is dangerous, accidents can happen and that you are present at your own risk.

Like I said at the start, these findings are at best preliminary and without having access to the footage of the incident aren't to be relied upon, however often the initial impression is largely correct. To me it's quite clear that this could have been prevented if there was a mechanism which prevented the ride starting if a seat restraint wasn't properly secured or a weight limit exceeded.

Awful tragedy. When I saw the photos you could clearly see that the safety wasn’t in place. The staff were too busy chatting to check properly. However, he must’ve known himself that it wasn’t in place either. I think responsibility lies with the staff, but also with the individual. Even at the age of 15 I would expect some understanding that it is risky to get on when not being safely contained. Maybe some education to the general public is required if this is a problem, pointing out that there is a risk of life if you are not securely strapped into these types of rides.

Didn’t give it much thought though, as in I could have died. I think this should be made clearer.

It should be made clearer death is the outcome potentially I completely agree,

I don't want to sound flippant - but what do people think these restraints are for? Do you take the same view about car seatbelts? Why would a ride that travels as fast as your car be different?

@oovetolove I disagree, driving a car and riding a rollercoaster are two completely different things. To legally drive a car you need to be an adult (17+ anyway) and to prove you have an awareness of safety and have an understanding of the rules and can risk assess. It is then your responsibility to ensure you follow those rules and, to an extent, ensure others in your vehicle follow them too (especially children). You can decide to not start the car or to pull over if you feel you or your passengers are not safe. Getting a license to drive involves a number of steps to ensure you are capable of safely operating a car and if you are deemed no longer capable your license can be removed.

A theme park is completely different, there are no tests to enter, it is not sold to customers as an inherently risky activity and children are permitted to enter without any adult supervision (12+ at Alton Towers). The ride attendants operate the rides and therefore take responsibility for much of the safety of passengers. You can't just stop a rollercoaster because you don't feel safe, the ride technology and ride attendant are responsibility for identifying any safety issues and dealing with them. Yes there will still be rules and expectations for guests to follow but anything absolutely imperatively important for the safe operation of the ride such as harness operation is and should always be the responsibility of the park.

Take a food allergy. In day to day life someone with an allergy is responsible for their own safety (like driving a car) and ensuring they manage risks. When they go to a restaurant and the restaurant specify they understand the allergies and are happy to accept their custom, it becomes the responsibility of the restaurant to manage that risk and ensure the customer is kept safe (like in a theme park). The customer is still responsible for not doing anything stupid like helping themselves to someone else's meal however when it comes to the service they are paying for- their own meal, the restaurant is taking responsibility for their safety. A bit like how in a theme park individuals are responsible for not making stupid decisions like entering restricted areas but the park are responsible for the basic safety of customers by ensuring every passenger is properly restrained within the height/weight restrictions of the ride.

The friends he was with said that he had been told he was too big for earlier rides and happily sat them out, they reported that he specifically asked if he could go on this one.

There's also clearly some people audibly talking about restraints as the ride takes off and the assistant shouts something vague to them like make sure its done up. The video (which obviously might have missed some bits) doesn't show anyone checking his restraint that I can see, as the main operator is just talking to the one group. Someone is walking round the back but doesn't appear to reach his group

The news reports say that he told his friends he didn't think it fitted right on the ride.

@LBOCS2

You could have scales at the entrance to the park that allows you to stand on them and gives you a print out of the rides you can (or can't) ride for safety reasons. Completely private, no need for any measurements to come up, no embarrassment. Weight is a sensitive subject but this would take away some of the difficulty.

This is such a good idea. You could have it for height too, so you can steer children away from anything they're too small for.

I think the issue is probably that they assume if you can get the seatbelt / harness thing on, you're not too heavy. But different people carry weight so differently, two size 24 women could weight completley different amounts, one could be safe and the other not.

@Nicholethejewellery

I've not been able to find the actual footage of the incident so am unable to give a full opinion of what happened, but it would appear that the seat restraint didn't fit the deceased's body. I am unclear at what point he actually parted company with the ride so my findings are preliminary at best.

My view is that responsibility should be shared equally between the deceased, their parent/guardian, the person operating the ride, the ride manufacturer and the theme park operator.

The theme park operator and ride manufacturer should have put processes in place to ensure this sort of thing couldn't happen. It's perfectly foreseeable that someone will be an inappropriate size to go on the ride and clearly there wasn't a reliable way to discriminate between those who were suitable and those who weren't.

It's not just a case of weight limits, because if (as I understand it) the seat restraint didn't fit the deceased properly, that is an issue of body dimensions not just weight.

The person operating the ride is at fault too, because they didn't check whether everyone was suitably secured before starting the ride. It looks like they realised after the ride started but either chose not to stop it or were unable to.

The deceased and their parent/guardian are also partly to blame, because everyone should know that when you go on a ride like this accidents sometimes happen. Theme park rides are violent - that's why they are exciting - but this violence can cause life-ending and life-changing injuries. There will always be a chance something will go wrong, if you're not prepared to take the risk then don't get on the ride.

This message perhaps needs spelling out more clearly on the ticket. I've not been to a theme park for a long time but have been to motor racing events in the past few years, where the ticket always carries a warning that it is dangerous, accidents can happen and that you are present at your own risk.

Like I said at the start, these findings are at best preliminary and without having access to the footage of the incident aren't to be relied upon, however often the initial impression is largely correct. To me it's quite clear that this could have been prevented if there was a mechanism which prevented the ride starting if a seat restraint wasn't properly secured or a weight limit exceeded.

He seemed to slide out when the breaks came on, on the down it was quite the impact with the floor.

The shoulder section on his harness was nowhere near as locked in as others where. Most of the times though it’s barely teenagers left operating these rides at fairs.

I completely agree, it would also save people queuing for ages to get on a ride and then be turned away, there will be a weight limit advised by the manufactures, but often in UK theme parks it just usually says about shapes and sizes, but its really vague.

From the perspective of the park and the rider isn't it best for everyone that the individual takes responsibility for their weight than someone doing it by visually looking at them?
And have scales that if attendants aren't sure they make it mandatory to get on. That way it's not subjective

I don't disagree, OP - after all nothing would persuade me to remain on that ride with the safety harness unfastened - but spare a moment to think of the screams of "Fat shaming!!!" if the scales idea ever came about

It might sound like a good idea in theory, but with the outrage we see when even an HCP touches on weight, I don't imagine it would go down well if theme park staff got involved

not to mention that other people are also at risk from incidents like this.

that poor boy and his family!

The problem is that even if you give everyone all the possible information there will be those who try and find a way around it or abuse those trying to enforce the rules. Last time I was at Alton Towers there was a mum screaming in the face of the teenage attendant because her child wasn’t allowed on because, although his Afro style hair was over the height limit, the top of his head wasn’t. The attendant kept saying “I can’t let you in, your child would not be safe” and she was there screaming about how the attendant was going to make her son cry, that a few cm were hardly going to matter. People are insane.

Overall I think the 'test seat' is the best solution - avoids as far as possible judgement needing to be used about weight, it's a simple yes or no - and won't only single out overweight people, as anyone who is too small for the ride will be identified. The test seat could be in a private booth.

but the test seat either needs to forced on us all - OR people need to actually have to think about "am i okay?" themselves.

I have seen tons of chat about disney/universal about fluffy riders and what factors may limit you riding (big shoulders/boobs) which vary ride to ride.

the only 100% safe way is RIDE CAN't GO UNTIL ALL HARNESSES SEALED - i assumed most rides had this safeguard (hence why they have to do it manually for empty seats)

They do. He was under the weight. It’s just that the design of the ride hadn’t accounted for the size of people at his weight. It’s the design that was at fault.

well the design wasn't faulty as such, they need shoulder restraints for many rides and anyone built like a linebacker probably won't pass those tests. Does that mean no one should be able to ride?

I have seen the video. It’s very distressing.

The shoulder harness was designed to be fully down. When in the fully locked down position it would apply pressure on top of the shoulders and over the chest, (stopping you going up) but the bottom of the harness would also be right down over your groin, at an angle greater than 90degrees, stopping you sliding down and out and pushing your bottom into the back of the seat.

When I have been on similar rides in the UK, there is also a failsafe buckle that comes up between your legs and clips into the bottom of the harness, so even if the harness unlocked, it would not fly up very far. I can see on the video that other riders do seem to have a buckle in place. In the UK, I have also seen this sort of a ride with a ‘double’ harness - a solid T lap bar that sits between your legs, and then an over the shoulder harness that comes down on top, with a fail safe buckle connecting the two.

The shoulder harness for this poor boy did not even come down far enough to be covering his stomach, let along reaching his groin and thighs. It was left resting at an angle of 45degrees, perhaps a little more, resting on his stomach and abdomen. The fail safe buckle is not in place and probably did not reach.

I cannot for the life of me understand why the attendants did not spot this or taken action if they did spot it. Whether they didn’t check, or did not understand how the harness is designed to operate and therefor did not understand the implications of it sitting at such a high open angle, even if it was showing as ‘locked’.

I find it hard to believe the harness was able to ‘lock, at such an open angle, but even if it did, it was incapable of performing its function of pinning the person down and back into the seat at such an open angle. And with no fail safe buckle in place there was literally nothing preventing him from sliding right out of the bottom of the harness and seat, which is exactly what happened, at height and at a speed of around 75mph. He went up still in position, but as the ride came back down, as the break was applied, his body continued its downward trajectory and there was nothing to stop it.

According to witnesses, he did voice concern that the harness was loose fitting but was told it was fine. His friends said he was so concerned he asked them to tell his family he loved them just before they went up.

In my opinion, it was a completely avoidable accident and should never have happened.

My view is that responsibility should be shared equally between the deceased, their parent/guardian, the person operating the ride, the ride manufacturer and the theme park operator

You are disgusting if you think a child should be held responsible.

Before my gastric sleeve once I was the 9nly person in a Gulf Air business cabin. The cabin crew asked if I minded if they brought some one from economy to balance and the cheeky bustards brought 3 grown men to sit in the opposite aisle.

I don't think it's unreasonable no but I think it would be tricky to make it workable without the pressure sensitive scales mentioned by pp.

1. many people may not know their weight and could think aaah I'm not that heavy

2. people could lie about their weight determined to go on the ride and not wanting to be embarrassed and theme park operators can't guess someone's weight just by looking at them. At least with height bars it's clear to see if someone falls below or above the minimum/maximum

Rides should have the scales mentioned

Signage and scales are not effective safety measures. A good idea to avoid guests’ embarrassment in being asked to leave a ride and wasting their time queuing. Also a good idea from the perspective of getting visitors on and off rides efficiently. But not as a measure to avoid death and injury. The problem here is that ride was able to start without this lad being secure. In a time when cars will warn you about unsecured seatbelts for occupied seats, it’s impossible to imagine that rides costing millions of pounds don’t have the technology to prevent accidents like this from happening. So what went wrong in this case?

There are any number of reasons why someone may not tell an attendant if they aren’t secured - embarrassment, failure to understand - or not take in warnings about weight. It’s also ludicrous to make such high stakes health and safety the responsibility of teenagers doing part-time jobs. The operator is aware of these human factors and needs to work them into their operations. They are to blame here. Well, them and/or the manufacturer or someone servicing the ride - but not a minor, his parents or a low-paid ride attendant.

I live in Perth Australia. They tried this at our local adventure park with scales and there was uproar with people getting upset and fat shamed so it was abolished

@Bintymcbintface

I don't think it's unreasonable no but I think it would be tricky to make it workable without the pressure sensitive scales mentioned by pp.

1. many people may not know their weight and could think aaah I'm not that heavy

2. people could lie about their weight determined to go on the ride and not wanting to be embarrassed and theme park operators can't guess someone's weight just by looking at them. At least with height bars it's clear to see if someone falls below or above the minimum/maximum

Rides should have the scales mentioned

Agreed but sometimes we need telling we are too fat. Before my sleeve I was 108kg, knackered and breathless and sad. I kind of wish someone told me I was 100% overweight