To not pay my builder

[Notagoodtime]

Sorry this is a bit of a long one but totally confused if I’m being unreasonable. We are in the middle of a £100,000 extension. We have had no end of problems from the get go. Builders not turning up, poor work that had be corrected etc etc. We have a payment schedule so at certain points in the build we need to pay. At Christmas time when we were still doing ground work the builders asked us to pay upfront for the roof and windows and doors. Telling us although we were obviously not at that stage they needed the money to ensure they were ready when we needed them. We agreed to pay them £14,000 as requested. We have now got to roof level but owe them £8,000 for the last fix. My husband is reluctant to pay the money owed for the work done until we have proof that the roof and doors are coming - not seen a receipt. We are getting more worried as various companies tell us they won’t let our builders have an account as they don’t pay up and have a bad reputation. Our builder is demanded the money due so he can pay his team and says he will tell them all how awful we are at not paying if he doesn’t gage the money. I’m concerned that if we pay we may never see the roof timbers and windows. Aibu? Should I pay for the work already completed?

You need to pay the stage payments as required under the contract.

No they don’t!

You pay based on work done, you sit sub them the weekly wages.

I’d ask to see the windows roof order and date when they are due to arrive etc and not a penny until they are seen and checked up on.

Where are you?

Thanks @BluebellsGreenbells this is how I feel but beginning to doubt myself.

We are in the cotswolds

First go on the website - www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company

Check them out - hang in while I find something else

If they needed the roof and windows paying for on ordering that far in advance then it should have been set up as a stage payment in the schedule, surely?!

Have you effectively paid 14k from a later stage payment that's not technically due yet? Or have you made stage payments only as per the schedule?

Hi @GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut. Yes the £14,000 we paid was supposed to be paid when the roof stage was completed but the builder told us if we didn’t pay in advance he couldn’t guarantee that there wouldn’t be a delay.

Roof trusses and windows generally need a 50% deposit paid to start manufacture with the remaining amount payable before delivery. (Percentage does vary between suppliers)
I've ordered trusses last week with a new company that we used (due to costs and turnaround) and they required the amount in full before manufacture.

I would suggest that you ask the builder which companies he has placed the order with and ask them directly.

Have you signed off any designs for either the roof of windows?

As part of a building company, keeping funds flowing with ever increasing costs and price rises across all materials, its becoming more difficult to keep steady and balanced cash flow so whilst I can understand them requesting payment for larger materials upfront, there should be some transparency and reassurance as to where these goods are coming from and order status.

Thanks @Fuzzynavelgazer. This is all so unfamiliar ground to me. The builder said he has paid for the roof timbers but the roofer has submitted the final calcs for sizing so unsure if the timber company would have taken money at this stage without dimensions? Do you know roughly the usual turnaround for roof timbers?

Sorry should say roofers haven’t submitted final calcs on dimensions

The truss companies do not send out any proforma documentation until the truss design has been signed off. Usually the builder signs these off but it's common courtesy to forward these designs to the client (though most don't know what they're looking at) for their own files.

Lead times in our area down in the south east are currently 6-8 weeks from sign off.

Did you do any financial checks on the 'company' or partners to whom you're paying this money? How are you paying it, by bank transfer against supplied invoices, are you being charged VAT? If so have you seen the VAT cert? Get a financial status check done even if you have to pay a third party.I understand that suppliers will want deposits but in view of the issues I would want to check direct with the company the orders have been placed and insist on paying the suppliers directly.

@Fuzzynavelgazer sorry I’m being a bit dim. So the builder has said that the timbers are ready to go at the timber company but need calcs to make the final cuts. Is this how they work? Builder said that from giving them dimensions it will take 48 hours to deliver. I am so confused

When we did our extension our mortgage provider wouldn't release our stage payments until certain works were done.
Tell your builder that the bank want to see orders and invoices.

You need to pay the stage payments as required under the contract.

Only if the stages are complete as per the requirements of the contract.

Never pay for materials up front, order them yourself. Never pay more than the work on site is valued at.

To be honest, it sounds like it is time to get a new builder.

Having done several complete gut jobs on houses, this is making my teeth itch.
Obviously not all builders can front the money for materials, but - they absolutely need to give you proof of where your money has gone. If need be, from now on, you can pay the merchant directly, although this might not help relations btw you and the builder.
I've had one experience where the builder had more than one job going on and he was basically taking Peter's money to build Paul's house. (Ended up in court.)
Also - you say - "Yes the £14,000 we paid was supposed to be paid when the roof stage was completed but the builder told us if we didn’t pay in advance he couldn’t guarantee that there wouldn’t be a delay." He's changing the terms of your contract with him, so you have more than a right to request more information than you're getting.