NHS healthy food guidelines - confusion

[beatrixpotterspencil]

And it isn't just the NHS, there are countless health bodies throughout the western world who still believe we ought to choose trans fatty oils in margarine over butter.
As far as I am aware, margarine has long since been considered a franken-food, yet the NHS is still advising diabetics and those with cardiovascular disease to swap butter for marg, meat for white bread and full fat yogurt for the reduced fat, sugar filled monstrosities.

I am 48, very slim and eat butter, virgin olive oil, meat (usually poultry or fish), full fat yogurt, avocado, cheese, cream, greek yogurt, olives, stuff that is going to kill me apparently since reading about saturated fats on the NHS last night.

I thought the saturated fat = bad cholesterol had been debunked, but according to most health bodies, recent research still posits it as a major contributor to cardiovascular disease and diabetes. It seemed odd to choose to choose a low fat, processed alternative to an already 'healthy' food? (yogurt). So my natural Greek stuff is inferior to a sugar stuffed muller light?

I'm one of those spectacular wankers who makes their own pesto
I must definitely be unreasonable!
So I am well and truly one foot in the grave according to the health service.
When looking for their suggested alternatives to sat fats, most of the recommendations were for white, sugary breads and cereals. It is apparently better for me to chuck down a ton of rice crispies than some microwaved scrambled egg with a splash of milk.

Is this confusing anyone else? My family tended to eat similarly to me and were always healthy/slim. Perhaps it is just genetic luck and we have been juggling with an early death

I don't read a lot about nutrition, but do love cooking and following tasty recipes, so was surprised to read this. Over the years, and especially on MN I have picked up some great ideas and wasn't aware that people were still pushing hydrogenated oils as healthy.
And if they are not, why the heck are so many health bodies promoting it?
Even my own GP said my diet was excellent. I am confused!

Couple of interesting articles;

Ultra processed food

The sugar conspiracy

Hm, I think another poster makes a fair point that if the NHS are trying to get as many people as possible to lose weight due to obesity, perhaps the strategy of low fat even when processed feels more likely to be successful. Eg because people can still eat the ‘same’ foods, just lower cal, lower fat etc.

However I think if this actually worked more people would be healthier or slimmer by now. Appreciate this is just my tuppence worth and I’m not an expert.

It would be great if we focused more on whole foods, I think that’s better regardless of diet, but that might be a mindset shift too far (and potentially more expensive for some) to become government policy.

It’s a shame. My eldest still gets overly focused on what constitutes ‘healthy’ food because it was drilled into him and his peers at school. Hasn’t been in school for a couple of years now and he still remembers it! We have regular conversations about it and that he doesn’t have to worry. I dislike that aspect of the healthy eating/Start4Life? stuff, like someone else mentioned, coming home from school with leaflets about buying Diet Coke to be healthy when we rarely buy soft drinks and mostly have water It’s a perennial risk of blanket approaches.

I also don’t personally believe high carb low fat is the epitome of healthy eating but it’s the national approach. I eat low carb so recognise I’m eating in direct contradiction as far as my macros are concerned, but it is massively beneficial for me.

@Littleorangeflowers

Something came back from sons school with diet soft drinks as a healthy option

I’d much rather have a full sugar coke now and again as a treat (I no longer drink alcohol, so it’s my treat on the rare occasion I’m at a pub), than diet fizzy drinks full of chemical fake sugar that does fuck knows what to you.

”Are you sure he was a real doctor!?”

Put it this way, @HailAdrian - it is an open secret in our village that no-one chooses to see this particular GP if any of the others are available. Personally, I’d only see him for something really simple indeed.

@tabulahrasa

“It also says choose low fat yoghurts which are in fact full of sugar and calories instead.“

Full fat yoghurts have the same sugar...

0% fat plain greek yogurt doesn't taste like the 10% kind. Usually when people go for lower fat they choose flavoured because they want to actually taste something. Full fat tastes good with nothing added.

Read Pure, White and Deadly - it’s most interesting. Years ago a link between eating high levels of saturated far AND sugar increased the risk of heart disease. The sugar industry in USA lobbied to have the sugar bit suppressed, and so here we are with low fat ,high sugar products which are considered to be healthy.

Over the years I've been doing Bootcamp, we've had several GPs - all of whom have made the point that they have very little training in nutrition. Which really shocked me.

Agree. We eat full fat yoghurt, butter & cheese. Don’t buy ‘low fat’ anything as it always tastes grim to me. We’re all a healthy weight, so happy to continue eating this way.

@FrownedUpon

Agree. We eat full fat yoghurt, butter & cheese. Don’t buy ‘low fat’ anything as it always tastes grim to me. We’re all a healthy weight, so happy to continue eating this way.

It’s the natural way though isn’t it?

Animal data are demonised, but how did we live hundreds, thousands of years ago?

Fats, not data.

My practice nurse now leaves me the hell alone about diet after my You're Getting Old So You're Bound To Get Diabetes And Die appointment.

'What we need to do is stop eating all those biscuits, chocolate, cakes and pies we all love so much and have skimmed milk/low fat yoghurt/diet spread/lots of pasta and cereals'.

Umm, you know the bit on my records that says I'm Celiac? And the one about being both Lactose intolerant and having a cows' milk allergy?

'Takeaways?'

Celiac.

'Not even chips from the chip shop or a Chinese?'

Absolutely not. Cross contamination.

'What do you eat, then?'

oh, I wonder that myself when I search the supermarket for ingredients/something I can actually eat on many occasions

Lunch is usually something like Salmon or Tuna, steamed rice, salad, avocado, boiled egg, then dinner is normally some sort of meat with more rice, rice noodles/potatoes and vegetables or jacket potato, weekends are when I have Bacon/Avocado/Egg on GF bread, some sort of curry -

'Ah, that's all very high in fat. The fish is called Oily for a reason and avocadoes are very high in calories like the bacon and the eggs will give you high cholesterol. What about having some porridge and honey or buying some pancakes?

Some Celiacs can't have any oats, either, not even gluten free ones because they contain another protein very similar to gluten. And don't pancakes usually contain flour and milk?

'And curries are very high in fat, especially when you buy all the sides as well'

Not in mine. Couldn't eat the sides if I wanted to, either. You know, gluten. And I have lost over thirty kilos since my diagnosis.

'You could try some exercise, maybe making sure you do a thousand steps a day?'

Oh, I've got that on my Fitbit. A slow day is 8,000-odd, most days 12-plus before I go to the gym or for a run.

'OK, well here's a booklet from the BHF that gives you loads of advice what to eat and what to avoid - what, THIRTY KILOS?'

Yup.

'Are you sure you mean kilos and not pounds? Because that would be amazing, anyway'

Absolutely positive. You're the person who weighed me both times.

'Maybe I should be asking you how to do it, then?'

[polite smile not telling me I'm doing this all wrong would be a start ]

I got home and read the booklet in case there was something useful in it. Basically, I need to stop eating things I don't eat in the first place. Eat both more and less of the things I can, start eating loads of things that I can't eat and increase the amount of ultra high processed items from next to nothing to at every meal. And I need to start doing as much exercise in a week as I've already done by about 10.30am on a Monday morning.

She was still better than the NHS dietician I saw twenty years ago who recommended that I filled my plate with pasta, as little chicken breast as possible and bought diet ding dinners whilst avoiding the horror that was salt and butter.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

My practice nurse now leaves me the hell alone about diet after my You're Getting Old So You're Bound To Get Diabetes And Die appointment.

'What we need to do is stop eating all those biscuits, chocolate, cakes and pies we all love so much and have skimmed milk/low fat yoghurt/diet spread/lots of pasta and cereals'.

Umm, you know the bit on my records that says I'm Celiac? And the one about being both Lactose intolerant and having a cows' milk allergy?

'Takeaways?'

Celiac.

'Not even chips from the chip shop or a Chinese?'

Absolutely not. Cross contamination.

'What do you eat, then?'

oh, I wonder that myself when I search the supermarket for ingredients/something I can actually eat on many occasions

Lunch is usually something like Salmon or Tuna, steamed rice, salad, avocado, boiled egg, then dinner is normally some sort of meat with more rice, rice noodles/potatoes and vegetables or jacket potato, weekends are when I have Bacon/Avocado/Egg on GF bread, some sort of curry -

'Ah, that's all very high in fat. The fish is called Oily for a reason and avocadoes are very high in calories like the bacon and the eggs will give you high cholesterol. What about having some porridge and honey or buying some pancakes?

Some Celiacs can't have any oats, either, not even gluten free ones because they contain another protein very similar to gluten. And don't pancakes usually contain flour and milk?

'And curries are very high in fat, especially when you buy all the sides as well'

Not in mine. Couldn't eat the sides if I wanted to, either. You know, gluten. And I have lost over thirty kilos since my diagnosis.

'You could try some exercise, maybe making sure you do a thousand steps a day?'

Oh, I've got that on my Fitbit. A slow day is 8,000-odd, most days 12-plus before I go to the gym or for a run.

'OK, well here's a booklet from the BHF that gives you loads of advice what to eat and what to avoid - what, THIRTY KILOS?'

Yup.

'Are you sure you mean kilos and not pounds? Because that would be amazing, anyway'

Absolutely positive. You're the person who weighed me both times.

'Maybe I should be asking you how to do it, then?'

[polite smile not telling me I'm doing this all wrong would be a start ]

I got home and read the booklet in case there was something useful in it. Basically, I need to stop eating things I don't eat in the first place. Eat both more and less of the things I can, start eating loads of things that I can't eat and increase the amount of ultra high processed items from next to nothing to at every meal. And I need to start doing as much exercise in a week as I've already done by about 10.30am on a Monday morning.

She was still better than the NHS dietician I saw twenty years ago who recommended that I filled my plate with pasta, as little chicken breast as possible and bought diet ding dinners whilst avoiding the horror that was salt and butter.

Celiac here too. Totally hear you.

Most margarines in UK are not composed of hydrog fat & haven't been made of hydrog fat ("trans fats") since about 20 years ago, OP. You're out of date on that one. You'll find similar % of trans fats in most margarines as you'll find in plain meat (naturally occurring).

I suspect the risk-harms balance with saturated fat in the diet is complicated -- but most people would benefit from less saturated fat than they currently consume.

“0% fat plain greek yogurt doesn't taste like the 10% kind. Usually when people go for lower fat they choose flavoured because they want to actually taste something. Full fat tastes good with nothing added.”

They might switch to flavoured they might not, they’re not being advised to though. They’re being advised to switch to low fat versions of what they usually eat, whether that’s plain or flavoured yoghurt.

So people saying low fat yoghurt is full of sugar are being pretty disingenuous, full fat flavoured yoghurts are full of the same stuff and plain yoghurt is plain yoghurt.

So if someone is trying to reduce fat, switching to whichever version they usually have but low fat will in fact do that.

@BIWI

Over the years I've been doing Bootcamp, we've had several GPs - all of whom have made the point that they have very little training in nutrition. Which really shocked me.

So they know nothing about nutrition, HRT, the menopause, auto-immune diseases and thyroid disease.

Perhaps their strong point is aqueducts.

I am overweight and my mother has type 2 diabetes and has been overweight her whole life. She yo-yos on slimming world with all its muller lights and off again. I don’t have a good idea of a healthy diet and I’m concerned about not giving my children the best start. Does anyone have a recommendation for a book that I could read that would be a good starting point to improve us all. We are time poor and fussy so simple and tasty would be good.

It is confusing.

But there is mixed evidence about saturated fats and cholesterol, for one. And even if proven NOT to be connected, any fats are, generally, calorific, which can lead to weight gain, which, in turn, can lead to increased cardiovascular and diabetes risks.

Animal data are demonised, but how did we live hundreds, thousands of years ago?

Not very long.

@DamnUserName21

Animal data are demonised, but how did we live hundreds, thousands of years ago?

Not very long.

Apparently that’s not true though, if you masses it past childhood and didn’t die in childbirth you lived a pretty long time.

Just the averages are skewed by things like that.

@Llamasally

With a family member recently diagnosed with diabetes I’ve been shocked by the archaic nutritional advice they’ve received from the NHS. I’d say their diet has probably got worse! It’s shameful when you think this could be leading people to worse health at best.

Agree with this! I was monitoring my blood sugar at home for gestational diabetes (turned out to be fine) and my dad gave me some cookbooks and info about type 2 diabetes (bless him, he misunderstood) and I was absolutely shocked at the advice. It was effectively slimming world in a book, being marketed as diabetes management.

My dad has never really used fats in his food - he buys the lowest fat version of everything (the leanest meat, 1kcal oil sprays, 1% milk, non-fat yoghurt, etc) and can't understand why I don't.

@Spottybotty20

I am overweight and my mother has type 2 diabetes and has been overweight her whole life. She yo-yos on slimming world with all its muller lights and off again. I don’t have a good idea of a healthy diet and I’m concerned about not giving my children the best start. Does anyone have a recommendation for a book that I could read that would be a good starting point to improve us all. We are time poor and fussy so simple and tasty would be good.

I don't have a book but tips.

Protein and carbs should be quarter each of a plate and veges half. full fat diary. Avoid processed. Mediterranean diet encouraged. Cook from scratch, ideally. Cooked or fresh fruit as dessert.

Portion control is key and meals with family that aren't rushed.

I need to practice what I preach!!!

*dairy

@Spottybotty20 Dr Rangan Chatterjee is a great place to start and very accessible for good, solid general advice

@lljkk

Most margarines in UK are not composed of hydrog fat & haven't been made of hydrog fat ("trans fats") since about 20 years ago, OP. You're out of date on that one. You'll find similar % of trans fats in most margarines as you'll find in plain meat (naturally occurring).

I suspect the risk-harms balance with saturated fat in the diet is complicated -- but most people would benefit from less saturated fat than they currently consume.

Must go out and buy a truckload then!

@DamnUserName21

Animal data are demonised, but how did we live hundreds, thousands of years ago?

Not very long.

I imagine that was due to other factors - infant mortality, scarcity, infection, etc. It is interesting to look at how obesity and fast/processed food around the 70's onwards seem to be connected.

I'm not into the whole paleo, having to eat how ancestors did malarkey myself, but something definitely happened to alter how we eat in the west during that time period. I recently watched a documentary about the very long lived people on Okinawa island, Japan. Most of them eat from their own gardens and never crossed over to fast/processed foods.
I could also say I suspect their longevity is is down to a lack of stress though, which I am fairly convinced is a killer.