Comedians often offend someone as part of their jokes so aibu to wonder if what Chris Rock said was actually that bad ?

[MisterRee]

Sort of playing devils advocate here, I’m a woman and I would feel humiliated if someone took the piss out of me on any stage let alone a world stage.
However, comedians are hired and/ or sold out because someone, somewhere finds them funny. Ricky Gervais roasted people much worse at BAFTAs etc.
Think of all the successful comedians, they probably don’t actually think the things they say… they do it because it is their job to do.

Maybe we should be angry at the Academy for booking comedians to present awards?

Aibu to think that the joke wasn’t too offensive compared to other comedic acts I’ve seen in the past?

Prepared to be in the wrong, just got me thinking

Jokes are all very well, but not when they are taking the piss out of someone's medical condition.

He thought he could get away with a disgraceful insult, not for a moment thinking there would be any retaliation. He deserved what he got, in my opinion.

I'm not a fan of Katie Price but think Frankie Boyle was a grade A shit making jokes about her son.
Yes, he was rightly called out on it, I can't stand FB since.
If WS hadn't slapped CR he'd have been called out too.
I can't agree with WS slapping him however CR knew exactly what he was doing, trying to recreate his 2016 Jada roast.

It was a set up!
Smith lives by the old adage of bad publicity is better than no publicity.

In general I think comedians can make jokes about almost anything, they may or may not be funny in a given instance but that is just a bad joke. (That being said, it's not impossible to make a really offensive joke but society seems to be leaning in the opposite drection at the moment.)

But I do think there is a line around personal remarks about named individuals. At a certain point they cross into bad taste and just being mean. Roast style comedy often does that, IMO, and Chris Rock is not great at staying on the right side of the line, maybe because the jokes aren't funny enough.

I think in this case maybe the personal history between the Smiths and Rock had more to do with how the joke was interpreted, and I wonder if WS might have imbibed something as well.

I am not remotely clued up on celebrity trivia and I knew JPS had alopecia

I had never heard of JPS before last night. Would not have occurred to me that the women in question had a medical condition. I'm not a comedian, but I might have made that joke purely on the assumption that her shaved head was a fashion choice. I have now googled images of her and confirmed what I suspected, she looks better with her shaved head than she did with a full head of hair. So if I made the joke, it would purely about the unusualness of her hair style, in ignorance of her medical condition, and it would be drawing attention to a feature that flatters her, rather than one I thought she might be sensitive about.

Are we any closer to explaining why making reference to a woman with a very short haircut (buzz cut) is an insult/huge slur/piss take?

I'm insulted by the implication that having very short/very little hair is an insult! The implication is she is unattractive/unfeminine. It's only hurtful because she isn't conforming to a societal expectation of 'female'.

The only thing more misogynistic was Will Smith meting out violence in defence of his wife his chattel

I hate this 'comedy roast' bullshit. The whole point if it is to be incredibly mean about people in the crowd for laughs. I think they have to do it because otherwise the entire show would be so dull. The 'jokes' are intended to be close to if not over the line and I would actually hate to be a part of it.

It wasn't nice but it wasn't the worst I've heard. Ricky Gervais made jokes about Mel Gibson's alcoholism I seem to remember which is also a disease but no one complained. Everyone (including Will Smith) is happy to laugh at others' expense but reacts when it's about his own.

The whole thing is pathetic: the joke, the response, the aftermath. Yes he should have got his Oscar but not at the ceremony. They should have sent it on to him afterwards having removed him for physically assaulting someone in such a ridiculous loss of control way. That he got a standing ovation for sobbing his apology is unacceptable.

There shouldn't be any 'banned' topics, censorship or prescribed speech is wholly wrong. The only question for a comedian should be whether people found it funny, they didn't so it didn't work as a joke, that's it.

Will Smith's reaction is just over the top, tinges of sexism and mostly is embarrassing.

WS should have been removed from the event immediately.

I thought the joke was because her head was shaved, like GI Jane? Okay, she shaved her head because of alopecia, but the joke wasn't really about her having alopecia. She didn't have to take it that way.

Will Smith obviously shouldn't have smacked anyone but he seems like a broken man these days. I think Jada PS is abusive and controlling. They have a totally one-sided 'open marriage' and I dunno, Will just looks like he's desperately trying to please her and keep his family together. He seems like a good person to me.

I think as a white woman, this isn't my conversation to be having. Let black people lead and set the narrative here. Its not up to decide.

Check out black feminists such as Sonya Renee Taylor who explains it so well.

It was a cruel “joke”. If he wants to make jokes at his own personal expense and trauma, fine. But anyone would condone someone taking someone else’s health conditions and poking fun at it in front of millions of people without prior warning or consent I have no idea. It’s disgusting. You can’t just throw the word “comedian” around and expect a free pass for being a bully. Just like saying “not to be rude but..” and going on to make rude and personal comment and pretending it’s now socially acceptable. It’s not.

I originally thought the violence was for the comment 'I love you Jada' meaning they'd been having an affair.

@TibetanTerrah

I think if she had no hair because she was undergoing cancer treatment it would have been an absolute no go, im not sure why the reaction seems to be that alopecia is a grey area.

This

@drpet49

YANBU- Even Will Smith was laughing at the joke until he saw his wife wasn’t.

The point is that it was a targeted personal comment about Jaffa’s Alopecia.

Jada looked visibly distressed when he said it, and Rock milked it.

Whether Will Smith laughed is neither here nor there. (Apart from making him look even more of an arssehole). It is about Rock making a named personal comment about a woman with a medical condition.

I don't think she's more deserving of sympathy because she's a black woman. Hair is pretty central to most women's identify.

I have a hair loss condition (not alopecia) that means I choose to wear a half wig most of the time. I have no problem with the joke whatsoever although obviously it wasn’t aimed at me personally.

Jada is not bald from a medical condition as people keep parroting. She actually has a tiny strip of hair loss and she has made the choice to shave her head.

Rock gently mocked her choice to shave her head. Not her hair loss. Not her medical condition. Let’s actually look at what her said.

“Jada, I love you. I can’t wait to see GI Jane 2”.

Demi Moore shaved her head for GI Jane. She looked fucking amazing.

This has been blown so out of proportion. Her choice of hair style was mocked (& it was a choice, she had plenty of natural hair & has also worn a tonne of extensions and weave and wigs) not her hair loss.

My husband call me Boaby (from Still Game) because my hair loss at the top of my head makes me look like I have a mullet. I laugh every time.

Weren't they (Rock and Pinkett Smith) the zebra and the hippo in the Madagascar films? I know it's voice acting but even so, they've known each other for a while. I'm sure that CR appeared in Fresh Prince too, and that they've worked together in other stuff/seemed to be friends. Maybe not close but good enough.

It's a shame that their friendship has broken down so publicly. To be honest I didn't really think much of Rock's 'joke' but he didn't deserve Will Smith's caveman-esque "MY WOMAN" violence. Pretty embarrassing from the pair of them. The only one I have sympathy with is Jada, and I'm sure she doesn't want anyone's pity.

Thing is, it's subjective
If I made a joke and the person called me out on it later as not being OK, I would apologise even if I didn't "get" why they were offended, and I would like to hope CR would do the same. Slapping absolutely not OK
However in terms of the "joke" itself, I personally fail to see how it was "making fun" of a woman wit alopecia. If he wanted to belittle or mock her, he would have gone for a very unflattering comparison (probably an "ugly" male role or an alien or soemthing). That would have been horribly offensive. Instead I saw it as a comedic nod to a beautiful woman rocking a courageous look (medical condition or fashion, either way)...I can't see how suggesting a gorgeous professional actress is now more eligible for a remake of a role previously played by an equally gorgeous professional actress....
But like I said, if I were CR and she said afterwards she was upset on twitter or something, or got up and left, I would not defend the joke and apologise. I can't tell her how to feel. Of course. Not that CR was given that opportunity..
But it is subjective, and I am a bit taken aback at how many people think it was inappropriate or "mocking her condition ". As jokes go it was extremely mild and his reaction of "seriously? For a GI Jane joke?" Goes to show that he probably thought the same.
There have been far worse jokes levelled at female Hollywood celebs at award shows like this.
Regina Hall even mocked their marriage at the start....

WS has essentially made it OK to attack comedians if you don't like their act. I think that is far more concerning than comparing a woman to GI Jane (a badass who rocked a buzzcut)

I think where the line is drawn for me is when a comedian focuses on an individual and then makes a derogatory joke, rather than a generalised one.

A joke about alopecia in general is fine. Finding someone in the audience and then making a (potentially upsetting) joke based on their appearance is not okay.

In fact, it's downright bullying.

@Butteryflakycrust83

I think as a white woman, this isn't my conversation to be having. Let black people lead and set the narrative here. Its not up to decide.

Check out black feminists such as Sonya Renee Taylor who explains it so well.

What? You don't think it's ok to have views on comedy, or face-slapping, or the Oscars, or personal insults, because the people in this incident were black?

Do you feel the same way about everything anti-social that might be done by a non-white person? Or only if they do it to another non-white person?

Rock did say he didn't know had any medical condition related to her hair. If that's true, and it seems entirely possible, why would he, then it was a joke about her hairstyle.

That being said, I think Will Smith looked really upset, I don't think he was just throwing his weight around, he seemed to take it way out of proportion to the comment itself. I don't really consider an open handed slap to be the same as a punch or anything like that - it's meant to be an insult rather than harmful. But it's about the most extreme response of that kind, like 'fuck you" amped up to the max. Even more so since he had to walk all the way up there to do it.

Why did he react so strongly, given that he's not done so in instances that seem just as bad? Something from the past with Chris Rock? Or with JPS? Both seem possible, I am not convinced it's a good marriage and they seem to have a history with CR. Was he high?

I don't really consider an open handed slap to be the same as a punch or anything like that - it's meant to be an insult rather than harmful.

WTF?! I assume you'll be appearing on the stand as the expert witness for wife-beaters all over the country. Violence is not okay. Whatever shape his hand was formed into. FFS.

CR has gone after Jada previously. He went for her again this time when she was only there accompanying her husband, over a medical condition, when he was in a documentary about how important hair is to the identity of black women. He knew.

This wasn't him making a random ill-timed joke, this was him going after her deliberately again (having to use a VERY old call-back to do it, G.I. Jane isn't exactly a current reference), no doubt feeling in total security to get another jab in because of the situation.

I don't think Will's response was acceptable but Rock and Jada both knew EXACTLY what he was doing here.