To despair at women being treated as chattels

[MoiraNotRuby]

Ffs. Jada Pinkett Smith is insulted and the conversation is all about how the men reacted. 'My' wife doesn't mean she fucking belongs to you. I have such a low opinion of both men but also the media. Discussing whether chris should apologise to will, will should apologise to chris, FFS. How about they both apologise to Jada.

Women need men to get on board with equality. But we don't need men 'defending us' like this.

And violence is never the answer.

*alone spoke

@EmpressCixi

Chris Rocks joke was biphobic in nature though. His “GI Jane” comment regarding her buzz hair cut was casting shade on the fact Jada is bisexual. It was a completely unacceptable joke to make, and no one is talking about that at all.

Was it? I thought the issue was that her hair is like that due to alopecia, so he was mocking a medical condition.

Pressed post too soon - mocking a medical condition because that’s how Demi Moore had her hair in GI Jane.

@SickAndTiredAgain

Pressed post too soon - mocking a medical condition because that’s how Demi Moore had her hair in GI Jane.

Yeah, that's how I interpreted it. Demi Moore's not bi so that's got nothing to do with it.

@MoiraNotRuby
think chattel is the best word (that I can think of) - Will's reaction could apply equally to 'don't scratch my car' 'don't burgle my house' 'don't insult my wife'- he absolutely treated her like a possession of his.

I disagree because Chris’ insult was designed to hurt Jada’s feelings, and if Will did think of her as his possession, that also means he would not give two shits about their feelings. His reaction would not apply equally to a house or car, as they have no feelings to be hurt. Owners of chattel had the same opinion regarding their slaves...that if slaves had feelings then they were of no consequence whatsoever.

I think it’s more along toxic masculinity lines in terms of chivalry and men should defend their female relatives. If this were two hundred years ago, that could have been Will smacking Chris to challenge him to a duel over the insult to defend Jadas honour.

@SickAndTiredAgain

Pressed post too soon - mocking a medical condition because that’s how Demi Moore had her hair in GI Jane.

It’s both. Yes she has alopecia, but why reference GI Jane specifically? The GI Jane movie is all about the main character defending allegations that she is a lesbian. Saying “GI Jane 2 “ to mock get have loss also directly references the biphobic gossip and allegations that were similarly made against Jada calling her a lesbian when she came out as bisexual and revealed her and Will are in a open relationship/marriage. He’s calling her a closet lesbian just like GI Jane was accused of.

Mock her hair loss....sorry about auto correct...

Absolutely. I’m pretty incredulous that this is not the main discussion point on this incident. How DARE Will Smith act in this way on behalf of his wife. He has completely demeaned her and acted like he owns her.

It sets feminism back by decades. If I were Jada, I’d be issuing a statement saying I was appalled by my husband’s reaction and that he had no right to react on my behalf.

I think i'm just past the fact that it is accepted it's ok for comedians to stand up there and freely insult, belittle and deride these people and they are just expected to laugh along. Yes they are wealthy and privileged... doesn't make it ok
Imagine you went along to a works do celebrating something you've done and the MC started slagging you, your family and your colleagues off... it wouldn't last long and there would be all sorts of repercussions... but no, they're actors, they can take it!
the whole thing is toxic

think chattel is the best word (that I can think of) - Will's reaction could apply equally to 'don't scratch my car' 'don't burgle my house' 'don't insult my wife'- he absolutely treated her like a possession of his.

I disagree. When someone says 'my wife', 'my husband', 'my parents' they're not claiming that person as a possession.

When I was about 12 I got into a screaming argument with a girl who was bullying my friend. No it's not my proudest moment, but when screaming 'don't you dare speak to my friend like that!' I wasn't claiming my friend as my chattel.

Agree with @Knittingchamp
OP some idiot insulted his wife so he smacked him one. Won't be the first or the last to do so. I wouldn't read into it too much other than he's human and he reached his limit and wanted to have his wife's back. A friend did that for me once actually (female friend). Back in the day if you were an asshole to someone's face you risked a smack in the mouth, end of.
It isn't right, it isn't appropriate, but if you insult enough people you then this is the likely result. It would have happened years ago at the Brits!

It was out of order, but I'm not convinced it was because he sees her as his property.

He got pissed off because someone he loves was insulted, and he reacted badly. Poor impulse control, which is surprising.

Once, on holiday, an American soldier called me a horrible racial slur in passing - I think he assumed I couldn't understand English.

My DH hit him. Not because I'm 'chattel' but because this guy was being a racist, and deserved a slap for running his mouth. Only language he understood.

Violence is never the answer, until it's the only answer.

I’m surprised no one on here realised that “GI Jane” or even just “Jane” is homophobic slang for a lesbian...

Chris Rock wasn’t just mocking her hair due to alopecia, he was calling a bisexual woman a closet lesbian, which is obviously biphobia.

I’m not surprised Will wanted to smack him. Of course he should not have, but Chris Rock did make a biphobic joke about the love of his life. It should never have been allowed and Chris owes Jada a big apology or should face cancellation. Will owes Jada an apology too, but honestly Chris Rock was more in the wrong imho.

@EmpressCixi

I’m surprised no one on here realised that “GI Jane” or even just “Jane” is homophobic slang for a lesbian...

Chris Rock wasn’t just mocking her hair due to alopecia, he was calling a bisexual woman a closet lesbian, which is obviously biphobia.

I’m not surprised Will wanted to smack him. Of course he should not have, but Chris Rock did make a biphobic joke about the love of his life. It should never have been allowed and Chris owes Jada a big apology or should face cancellation. Will owes Jada an apology too, but honestly Chris Rock was more in the wrong imho.

I've honestly never heard this before. In which case, yes you do have a point.

I don’t agree with this framing of the situation. I don’t think Will Smith considers his wife to be his property. I do think there was significant provocation and I’m not convinced that he was 100% in the wrong.

According to the Guardian, Will Smith grew up seeing his father beating up his mother and hating himself as a result, for not being strong enough to defend her.

I find his reaction very relatable. I'm not a man. But I've grown up witnessing and facing abuse, sometimes physical, sometimes verbal. It all gets blurred after a while.
When I read about what Chris Rock did, my blood starts boiling. I feel like jumping on stage and punching his sorry face. It would be ill-advised. I don't recommend that course of action. But punching bullies feels right. His words were violence. His words were vile. The whole thing reminds me of Carrie's prom scene. I don't condone disproportionate violence as an answer to social humiliation. But is is human. And I'm female.

Some of us have very strong protective instincts. These instincts often clash with how civilized humans are meant to behave. They can be hard to keep under control. Something to endure, not to be proud of.

But so-called civilized humans can be remarkably cruel, hiding poison behind "mere" words. Sometimes it stings so hard that, in the moment, physical violence feels like the only answer. And then we weep. For letting someone else unleash our inner monster.

There's no winners in that kind of story. But Chris Rock really drew first blood.

@EmpressCixi

I’m surprised no one on here realised that “GI Jane” or even just “Jane” is homophobic slang for a lesbian...

Chris Rock wasn’t just mocking her hair due to alopecia, he was calling a bisexual woman a closet lesbian, which is obviously biphobia.

I’m not surprised Will wanted to smack him. Of course he should not have, but Chris Rock did make a biphobic joke about the love of his life. It should never have been allowed and Chris owes Jada a big apology or should face cancellation. Will owes Jada an apology too, but honestly Chris Rock was more in the wrong imho.

I’m a lesbian and have never heard of GI Jane / Jane being slang for a lesbian. I’ve tried googling it several ways and I can’t find any references to it online either.

You may be right that it’s homophobic slang, but it’s definitely uncommon at least, so I think it’s more likely that he was referring to her alopecia. Mocking her disability is just as bad as mocking her sexuality imo, so he’s completely in the wrong either way.

@Ifeellikedancing

Agree wholeheartedly. If I were Jada I wouldn't know who to be more annoyed with. Disgraceful.

Have been talking to a colleague about this, I think i'd be more furious at my husband for acting that way and using me as an excuse!

YANBU. Toxic masculinity.