How would you handle this situation (discipling a 4 year old)

[Belle82]

I was never very effective at discipling my lg and now it has come to a head (& I fully know it is to do with our ds being born 4 months ago.

I am trying to do the whole natural consequences, giving her options and validating feelings.
It’s generally working well but we keep coming up against this same hurdle when we are out.

She will look defiantly at me sometimes and run off (or a situation similar), so her consequence is we go home. Then she will sit down on the pavement & refuse to move.

The pram I have is fairly heavy, for my medical reasons it’s the only one I can have.
I have a buggy board but she will only stay on for 5 minutes (if that)
She is far too heavy to lift and push the pram at the same time.
I am generally in complete control of my emotions when it comes to positivity disciplining her. But when she does this I feel completely helpless and then I get upset and shout (which is my stuff, not hers)
I don’t know how best to handle it? Any advice would really be appreciated.

Thank you ❤️

Stop tell her she can have a cuddle but you can’t lift her up and then she will need to go on the buggy board or walk when you are out. Would she be better on a scooter?

Before you go out set out your expectations. Get her to repeat what you have said. It obviously needs to be short and simple. Tell her that babies run off and that’s why they have to wear reins. She’s a big girl and shouldn’t need them.

Running off is unsafe so I would use reins. I’d explain very clearly beforehand why & what the consequence will be ie if you walk sensibly with me - holding onto pushchair (or whatever your rules are) then we can xyz. But if you choose to run off that is unsafe so you will need to use the reins. Because mummy’s no. 1 job is to keep you safe. Make it very clear to her that it is her choice & she is in control of what happens (within your agreed & acceptable boundaries). You’d probably only need to use them once.

And yes, you might end up sitting on the pavement a while but I would just very calmly say ok, it’s fine if you want to stay here but I’m timing how long and you will give me this time back later in a consequence (which would probably be a time ‘in’ ie sitting together & working through what happened & how everyone was feeling & how to make everyone happier next time).

Plus as you’ve recognised a lot of this is about a new sibling, I’d also be looking at how we could get some good 1:1 focussed & positive time together at home too, so she’s less likely to need to act out to get your attention.

Agree with having baby reins if she runs off.

My ultimate sanction was always screen time! “I’m going to count to three and if you aren’t standing up by then there will be no TV/tablet time”

Mine bloody love the TV so it always works 😂

The consequence of running off is reins

To be honest I wouldn't make going home a consequence for running off. That's fine if you're at the park and she wants to be there so wouldn't want to go home, however what if you have to take her somewhere she doesn't enjoy (dentists, supermarket, etc) this would encourage her to run off as then you would go home. Or if you are somewhere you have paid a lot of money for, you don't want to take her home after an hour (theme park or zoo or something)

I do think the reins is a good idea, or remove something desirable when you get home

She will look defiantly at me sometimes and run off (or a situation similar), so her consequence is we go home. Then she will sit down on the pavement & refuse to move.

I suspect that's your consequence, not hers OP. Taking a 4 year old home as a consequence really isn't going to be effective.

You have a runner, get reins.

Thank you for all the responses.
I will definitely look to get some bigger reins, all I can find are newly walking ones that she used to have.

To be honest it’s more the sitting down, the running off was just an example.

The sitting on the ground refusing to move/my inability to get her to move is the biggest issue 😔.

Would you be able to have baby in a sling, and DD in the puchchair? So if she runs out, baby hets transferred, and she gets strapped in? Without knowing what the needs are, I don't know if this is a feasible idea or not.

I feel for you, I ended up carrying my 4 year old on my shoulders and his scooter. He wasn't going anywhere except back to the shop for the magazine that started it in the first place. We'd already sat on the floor for 20 mins.

Sometimes they just won't. It's shit.

Then get a time out - on your phone and tell her that every minute she sits she loses a minuet story/tv/etc

Say nothing - don’t look at her and don’t engage - make it boring! A minuet is along time when silent.

Then sit down with her. Set the timer and say - let me know when you are ready.

Then when she’s ready set out the expectations again.

Make it boring.

With the sitting down/not moving you just have to wait.

She does it because she's knows it winds you up/gets a reaction. So just calmly wait it out. Don't speak to her, just completely ignore her and fuss over the baby/look at your phone. She'll get bored and give up when she sees there is no reaction/attention to be had.

if she sits on the pavement, you can completely ignore her

say 'I will talk to you when you are ready to behave / walk home / etc' and then start reading your phone and studiously ignore the child. it might take 5 mins or so but just let it.

My nephew does this (almost 4). His parents do the ignoring and waiting thing. They also do it by taking time off eg treat time.

Not sure I’d do reins at her age.

I'm a bit old school but if it was somewhere like a park where she couldn't run into a road I'd just walk off.

I use a ba pack that has reins for my 3 year old. It doesnt stop him sitting in the floor in protest but it keeps him safe.
No advice o discipline and consequences as I struggle with this too, but the backpack reins are a life saver

Your consequence sounds excessive and I'd suggest stepping up the consequences and punishment if that's how you wish to parent.

I'd say time out, positive praise, warnings that won't be able to do xyz, sit on a bench, whatever, but going home and leaving isn't working for you.

I wouldn't use leaving as a consequence unless she's done something pretty bad (eg hitting another child). But if you do decide to leave and she sits on the ground then, yes, you ignore her until she gets up.

I'd do what a pp said and just walk off.

Has she started doing this since baby was born? What was she like if you were out of the house before baby came along?

Right now the sitting down gets a reaction from you. Yes, it’s not a good one but it is getting her attention at a time when your attention is - understandably -less than it once was because now there’s a baby to focus on too. Children can very easily get themselves in a place where any attention is worth seeking, positive or negative.

So you need to stop the sitting down thing from being the thing that gets her attention. Give it no response. Stay completely calm.

‘Oh ok. We do need to go though so I’m putting a timer on and you’ll give me this time back later. You are in control of how long that is.’

Then ignore / don’t engage except to calmly repeat the situation - possibly some positive reinforcement ‘I can see you are feeling xxx, would you like a cuddle?’ ‘Mummy’s here for a cuddles whenever you’re ready.’

Be prepared that her behaviour may escalate - plan in advance how you will keep her safe (baby in sling strap her in pushchair is probably the answer, or at least moving away from the road).

And follow through on the consequence later.

It isn’t easy and will take a lot of staying calm on your part but it is a phase and is totally solvable - often a big part of this is that as parents we need to change our expectations or behaviours too.

Also consider if there is a pattern - is it when she is hungry / tired etc. and if so how could you mitigate that eg my ds (who at 4 was very like your daughter sounds, but at 8 is now so much more reasonable!) is like Jekyll & Hyde with low blood sugar so a well timed snack makes all the difference.