I don't know what to do

[EhEhhEhhh]

Hoping for traffic as I have no idea what to do.

My Grandparents had been married for 66 years. My Grandad passed away a week ago. He had been ill for about ten months with a few hospital stays/falls and he was getting worse. Nan is 84.

My Nan is clearly in the denial stage, But I'm worried it might be more than that with the things she is saying, We are worried about her and not sure what to do or how to respond to her etc. If it matters she was there when my Grandad passed, and stayed with his body until it was taken, So about ten hours, Also, she has not slept for days.

We went to see her today and all my Grandads stuff was thrown in the front garden, She told us if we didn't remove his shed from the back garden she will set it on fire to get rid of it.

She keeps saying he didn't die and wasn't even ill, That we are all acting and playing a part in it all, She said the man that died in her house was not my Grandad but an actor wearing a mask and we all had a part to play that day.

She is saying they were never married, That he wasn't my Grandad, That he was never in the Army, instead he went away and didn't tell her where etc

She seems fixated that other members of the family who have died in the past are in fact still alive and well, Just living elsewhere and choosing not to contact her, Also say (made up names) Auntie Jackie had a heart attack years ago, it never actually happened, And Uncle Sam who went deaf isn't really deaf, etc

The cat from across the street that comes over to be petted is now a 'surveillance machine' that is passing messages to us about her, That all her neighbours are spying on her and watch her if she goes outside.

She said she is not going to the actors funeral and won't be playing our evil game with us, That we are all in on this thing, That we told her Grandad was dead to hurt her, Today she said he wasn't dead but away in Ireland (No connection to Ireland at all) and he will be back and she would prove us all wrong when he does.

She keeps repeating that she wants the truth, That she has been watched since she was a little girl and Grandad only bought the house they lived in so the neighbours could watch her.

We have tried to tell her she is grieving and she just tells us to go away, Leave her alone, She is fine, there is nothing wrong with her, Just with us, and she has nothing to grieve as he is not dead.

Never been in this situation before, Should someone be staying with her? I don't feel right leaving her alone in the frame of mind she is in, at the same time she is shouting at us, being nasty, telling us to leave the house and leave her alone etc

Anyone have any advice please? Doctor said unless she hurts herself or someone else there's nothing they can really do.

@DamnUserName21 not true.

A Section 2 hold might be necessary to assess. My dad was sectioned on this last year with dementia as he refused to engage with services including gp for tests like blood and urine.

Contact gp again. Say your grandmother is severely unwell and needs admitting for psychiatric assessment as she is delusional, paranoid and may become dangerous to herself and to others. Also see if there is a mental health for older adults / community mental health team that you can speak to.

This isn't normal grief and she needs support

This sounds so incredibly difficult :( it does sound potentially like dementia - perhaps call the Admiral Nurse Helpline for some support/guidance?

[quote BestInterests]@DamnUserName21 not true.

A Section 2 hold might be necessary to assess. My dad was sectioned on this last year with dementia as he refused to engage with services including gp for tests like blood and urine.

Contact gp again. Say your grandmother is severely unwell and needs admitting for psychiatric assessment as she is delusional, paranoid and may become dangerous to herself and to others. Also see if there is a mental health for older adults / community mental health team that you can speak to.

This isn't normal grief and she needs support[/quote]
Your scenario is slightly different. OP's grandmother has yet to be offered clinical testing and might be compliant.

Psych will ask first if bio causes have been ruled out.

As I said, OP, 111 if cannot get hold of GP.

@DamnUserName21 yes, you're right, sorry. I guess I was assuming the paranoia with the spy cat, and the actors suggested that she was unlikely to cooperate.

I had trouble getting the gp to help me at first, so went to the Mental health for older adults team, spoke to the community Mental health nurse, was quickly escalated to the consultant and then we went back to the gp, said that the team needed the referral and were waiting to act and all they had to do was send a referral letter.

But they certainly were happy to proceed with urine tests etc as an in patient as he wouldn't engage, so there isn't necessarily that barrier.

Still an in patient now, 10 months later...

She needs medical attention. Tests to make sure there are no physical issues and sedation as the lack of sleep will not be helping.
Does she have a strong religious faith? Would the support of a clergy member be something she would accept and benefit from??

This definitely sounds like psychosis, OP - combination of shock, lack of sleep and possibly a UTI from dehydration. She definitely needs medical attention.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's so distressing to see someone in that state.

[quote BestInterests]@DamnUserName21 yes, you're right, sorry. I guess I was assuming the paranoia with the spy cat, and the actors suggested that she was unlikely to cooperate.

I had trouble getting the gp to help me at first, so went to the Mental health for older adults team, spoke to the community Mental health nurse, was quickly escalated to the consultant and then we went back to the gp, said that the team needed the referral and were waiting to act and all they had to do was send a referral letter.[/quote]
I'm glad you got some input, Best, and I hope your DF is getting the care he needs. It's very difficult for family members to watch their loved ones deteriorate and can make one feel very powerless and bereaved.

I also suggest getting her checked out for a UTI. I only learned recently how symptoms can present like dementia in the elderly when my boyfriend's nan suffered from it.
If she isn't looking after herself properly due to grief, it seems likely.

She definitely needs a mental health review - that level of paranoid belief needs medication and probably an inpatient stay.

What medications does she usually take, and has she been taking them? Who is monitoring this?

The GP is wrong. This is not normal. Try GP again but you could also contact the adult mental health team directly for advice.

This sounds like a mental health problem, possibly the shock of losing a loved one has tipped her over the edge.

However, because she is older, medical professionals will want to rule out other things first, eg. a UTI causing issues. And there will also be checks for dementia....however, to my mind the worry is the stories about other relatives and the comment about the cat being a surveillance machine.

We have a relative in our family who has schizoid episodes every so often, they start like this, our relative becomes very paranoid thinking people are about to harm them and that they are being "watched" (eg. once they said every dog being walked in the neighbourhood was monitoring them and could read their thoughts etc).

I’m sorry you are going through this.
It sounds like psychosis to me too as a pp suggested. I’ve had experience of psychosis brought on by an extremely stressful event and lack of sleep. She needs to be checked over. If it’s psychosis they will be able to treat her and sort the problem out.
I also know of somebody who developed dementia seemingly overnight after a stressful event. So it could be either.
I would not leave her alone in this state. She could do anything.

Take my advice-she isn't just grieving she sounds like she's having a psychotic break (I'm a RN and worked with elderly patients 23 years and spent time working on a inpatient geriatric psychiatric ward.) I don't reside in UK but I know you all have mental health crisis teams and A&E. She needs a bodily assessment to rule out acute infection and evaluation by geriatric team

This could be many things - delirium, psychotic depression, etc

GP should assess. I would say she needs a proper physical work up to see if delirium is likely, with psychiatric review also.

It is possible to detain someone for assessment/treatment if mental illness is
suspected, the person lacks insight, and there is risk to self or others, even if the person doesn't seek help themselves.
Here, there may be risk of further deterioration in mental state.

Definitely get GP to assess.

How stressful for you all.
Your poor grandmother.
My grandparents are both early 90s a few weeks back my nanna called my mum and said grandads acting strange.
She went over and he was ranting on and on about allot off things that didn't make sense and also started telling my nanna that she wasn't his wife.
Mum has worked in hospitals before and immediately thought it was a UTI. She got him an appointment and he did have a UTI apparently in older people it can really mess with their minds.
He is fine now.

This is definitely not “normal” grief. Ask for a second doctors opinion. Agree UTI needs ruling out.

It sounds like a psychotic break (once physical issues ruled out) and needs urgent professional intervention. Specifically mention the threats to set fire to the shed.

Doctor said unless she hurts herself or someone else there's nothing they can really do.

Wtf?!! You need to get on the phone and demand that a doctor sees your nan today! If they refuse, call an ambulance. Your nan is very very ill. Sounds like she is having a psychotic episode, probably due to the lack of sleep as well as the grief. Please do not let the poor lady suffer alone.

How are you getting on op?
If you don't have any luck with your GP, you can request a mental health assessment though your local Social Services. The request will have more clout if it's made by your Nan's Nearest Relative. More info here: www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/nearest-relative/sectioning-and-guardianships/

Does she have Parkinson’s Disease by any chance? My MIL coped very well for years then as her Parkinson’s progressed, despite medication, she became similar to this, not overnight and not related to grief but it was a very quick deterioration in her moods and thoughts. She also thought that people weren’t the “real” people her children weren’t her real children, doctors and nurses weren’t real doctors and nurses. Latterly staff at the care home were trying to poison her food, other residents were spies watching her etc. she deteriorated rapidly during restricted visiting during Covid and it must have been terrifying for her and it devastated my DH that he wasn’t able to visit her as he previously had. She refused to go outside because of spies and birds watching her so she couldn’t have visitors when outside visiting was possible. She mercifully died last year, not Covid, after years of this disordered thinking. The staff knew when she developed a UTI even without testing because she would get worse.

She is mentally unwell and needs medical attention. GP again, ask for a second opinion. Emergency help if you can’t get anywhere with this today.
💐

I started this thread but lost my log in details, I wanted to come back and thank everyone who replied to this.

My nan was sectioned for 28 days, She is still saying grandad isn't dead. She was totally fine before this and would go shopping all the time, cafe's etc, more than able to take care of herself and quite fit for her age. Now we don't know her, She is there but not, just gives yes or no answers, still saying she won't be at the funeral etc. stares into space all the time, it's like all life has left her overnight and she is a different person.

Grandad's funeral is on wednesday and she will miss it. Will this not make the 'He's not dead' thing worse if she doesn't go to the funeral? In a way it will confirm in her head that he has gone away and might come back as she will had no closure. Such a mess.

I have been told I can go to the review so will know more then, but I just wanted to thank everyone for taking time to help.