To not feel guilty very often?

[longestlurkerever]

On here and irl people often comment about how guilty they feel about things. Often to do with their children, but not always. Sometimes it's about not doing enough around the house or exercising enough or whatever. It's not an emotion I feel very often. Obviously I would if I'd done some real harm to someone but day to day it just isn't something I particularly identify with. Especially about productivity/laziness. As long as I'm not directly taking advantage of someone I don't see why I owe it to anyone to spend my time in any particularly fruitful way. If I want to sit on my arse and not reap the benefits of having blitzed the house or gone to the gym or whatever then that's on me but I don't feel guilty about it. I'm wondering if I should feel more guilt, and am ultimately a bit selfish, or whether other people exaggerate when they talk about feeling guilty about things they haven't done? Just curious really.

I am someone who feels guilty often and I have low self-esteem. I'm sure a semi-religious upbringing didn't help.

On the other hand, my sister is one who never expresses guilt or remorse. And she has a LOT she should feel guilty about, in my opinion (affairs, child abandonment etc). She just thinks it's better to look forward without regrets... who cares who gets hurt along the way, right?

So there must be a healthy balance somewhere. I certainly think not feeling guilty about how you spend your free time is a good start.

Yes I feel guilty and sometimes just for breathing.

Definitely low self esteem.

I'm trying to evolve as I get older and learning to be free from the constraints of low self esteem / guilt complex / sense of underachievement / feelings of worthlessness as quite honestly it's exhausting. Life is hard enough without adding all that shit to it.

Like I said though, trying...probably a slow process.

I don’t identify with it either. In a lot of cases guilt comes across as an entirely self indulgent emotion, and an ultimately pointless one at that.

@Nelliephant1

I could have a phd in guilt! I can feel guilty about things that are nothing to do with me and I wasn't even in the vicinity of!!

Please share how you don't feel guilty about things?!

I don't know, I was thinking about that. It's not like I have no conscience at all, I suppose I just let it have its say at the beginning but if I've decided I have valid reasons to ignore it then it doesn't eat away at me. Like yesterday I felt rubbish and was considering flaking on an engagement I had committed too. In the end I thought nah come on, that person's gone to an effort and you need to give back that thing you borrowed, and I went. And I'm going to go and see my mum for mother's Day even though it will be stressful. But if I'd felt really too ill I can't see myself ruminating on it because I'd have made a valid choice.

Whereas I started this thread because twice yesterday friends who were also poorly said "I told DD she couldn't have a lift because it was 2 hours round trip and I'm not well but now I feel guilty" and "so and so is taking advantage and I'd like to stop but I'd feel bad" and I don't really get that feeling much.

And then there's all the "I feel guilty if I sit on the sofa" where you aren't even impacting on anyone else at all in any meaningful way, you're just feeling generically guilty because you could be doing something more fruitful, and I don't get that at all, though I'll pitch in and help with my fair share of a joint obligation.

And the "mum guilt" associated with working or going out or whatever, no. There's often no perfect solution but you've chosen a valid path, you need a balance in all things and anyway what's the point of life if it's a relentless slog with no pleasures? Maybe I'd feel guilty if I was actually neglecting my kids but they have a good life. The closest I get is realising I handled something badly/lost my temper or whatever and I'll resolve to do better next time. Or not, because some things just are infuriating.

Maybe it's trust in my own judgment?

To quote Billy Connelly, lapsed Catholic A level guilt.

I wish it wasn't so though.

As someone who constantly feels guilty I am finding this thread fascinating. Has made me realise that I really need to start challenging my default guilt reaction. Any more help on how to do this would be great!

@Whereisme

As someone who constantly feels guilty I am finding this thread fascinating. Has made me realise that I really need to start challenging my default guilt reaction. Any more help on how to do this would be great!

Ok practical things: accepting that most paths have pros and cons and just because you're encountering a downside of your decision doesn't mean that it's the wrong path, though it may be worth investing some time in mitigating the downsides. So things like: I live in London. Do I feel guilty that my kids aren't bounding through fields being wholesome? A bit, but they have a load of advantages here too, it's just different, and I can address the downsides to an extent by making sure we spend time in the countryside and dragging my butt out on a Tuesday evening to do wholesome things with the Woodcraft folk.

But also: it's ok if not everything is perfect all the time. They spend a bit too much time on screens, in a messy house, whatever. There's always something "more" they could have or be doing but what they have is good enough and as a grown up I get to decide what is most important and what to let go of because I don't equate parenting with servitude. Even when I've been a bit shouty I tend to think well, there might have been a better way to handle that but at least they know their behaviour has an impact on those around them. I don't think they're too traumatised.

Another practical thing I did with work once: a time wheel where you colour in your perfect day: time spent sleeping, working, exercising, whatever. And I realised that actually there are only so many hours in the day. To fit in more housework or exercise I'd have to cut down on work, sleep, downtime or something and ultimately I just didn't want to. That allowed me to let go of some of the nagging "should" about the housework because yes I could prioritise housework over sitting in the sunshine with a book but actually I'm making an active choice to prioritise leisure here and if the consequences are a messy house I'll live with that. Ditto the only time to fit in more exercise would be by getting up earlier but I hate getting up earlier so I'm going to ease up on berating myself over that. As life has got less full (DDs older, wfh reducing commuting time) I've found more time for exercise and enjoy it but it doesn't mean I was doing anything wrong before. Is just choices and priorities.

I feel so very guilty a lot of the time.

It comes from caring too much what people might think of me, lack of confidence in my own judgements and being a perfectionist.

It impacts on my enjoyment. How can I enjoy sitting in the garden with a book when I haven't done some housework? How can I enjoy the garden when the borders need weeding or the fences need painting?

The rational part of my brain knows that it's all bull and life is too short, but it's hard to change.

Interesting point about priorities.

I find that people will always judge you for your priorities. Everybody wants a piece of you and that's what I struggle with.

I wish I could take a leaf out of your book on this, I feel guilty all the time! - and not about me doing bad thing eg hurting someone, just not doing 'enough' - not working enough, having a lazy afternoon (once in a blue moon), not having done this or that yet....logically it makes no sense, I should really try and feel less guilt.

OP this post is fascinating, the things you're saying seem so very obvious and yet clearly a lot of us feel guilty about all sorts of things which as you rightly say, were actually just perfectly valid choices and priorities. Thank you, this thread really is good for thought.

*food for thought.

I don't feel guilty either as I know my limits.

It occurred to me yesterday when chatting to a colleague that I don't feel much guilt. This colleague was describing staying up until 1am to spend time with her OH (who finishes work at 10pm). She also said she wouldn't arrange a solo activity on one of the two days they spend together, even though he wouldn't mind. I regularly go to bed before 8pm with our toddler because I'm tired. I'd love to spend more time with DH (we get one weekend day but with kids in tow) but I refuse to feel guilty for putting my wellbeing first.
I think I am not a deep thinker and can be selfish

@Hausa

I’m with you! Also, the people who are perpetually mortified. I see that on here a lot and I can’t imagine ever feeling SO embarrassed over what tend to be fairly trivial things.

MN often seems to be a place of heightened emotion.

Same here - very rarely feel guilt, and don't really get embarrassed either -to be fair this is borne of years of clumsiness due to being dispraxic -I've utterly humiliated myself so many times the minor things don't embarrasses me anymore! when I hear/read about someone who was mortified because they tripped or forgot someone's name I'm like "really?" Compared to falling down a flight of stairs with a full kfc tray showering half the restaurant in diet coke from a great height (just one of my more memorable examples!) it wouldn't even register to me!

I did used to worry/stress quite a lot about minor things but am now on citalopram so don't give a fuck!

I have a conscience, but not much guilt. Because the conscience tends to prevent me from doing things I'd feel guilty about.

And for me, those things are moral and ethical.

My conscience doesn't give a monkey's if I put off the laundry till the weekend, or drink a bottle of wine on my own, or spend all day doing absolutely nothing productive. And I don't feel guilty when I do that sort of thing.

I have never felt an ounce of "mum guilt". Maybe it's yet to come?

I very rarely feel guilty about anything - certainly not day to day decisions. I'm quite a pragmatic person (as is DH) and we're both quite good at owning our decisions and when deciding to do something, accept that we made decision as best we could based on the facts we knew at the time. And move on.

@onemouseplace yes, that’s how I feel! Make your decisions based on what you know at that time - you can’t do more than that! I never, for example, felt guilty about putting my 12 week old in nursery as I had to go back to work - it was that or we would have starved. No guilt at all!
I think also knowing you are in no way responsible for another adult’s feelings/responses to things. Do your best, don’t be an asshole, and that’s all you can do.

I’m with you OP. I never feel guilty about pleasing myself, being lazy, slacking at work (I don’t have enough to do but that’s another story) prioritising my needs or occasionally cancelling plans. I’d feel guilty if I did something bad or hurt someone but no, I don’t feel remotely bad for putting myself and my wants and needs first. I don’t have kids so it’s pretty easy!

I also don’t relate at all to the common trope on here of women being people pleasers socialised to put themselves last. I’m the polar opposite! I have no problem expressing my preferences or saying no, I don’t really care what people think of me (I spent far too long being hung up on wanting to be liked as a misfit teenager). I strive to treat people as I’d want to be treated, but that doesn’t mean forgetting about what I want in life.

@thevassal The KFC story is epic and you sound fabulous.

I never feel guilty. It's a completely wasted emotion that serves no purpose.

I have some empathy for people who feel guilt all the time but it's really just easy to get yourself out of that mindset. As long as you are doing your best with the time, money and resources available to you then you have nothing to feel guilty about.

I don't know, I was thinking about that. It's not like I have no conscience at all, I suppose I just let it have its say at the beginning but if I've decided I have valid reasons to ignore it then it doesn't eat away at me. Like yesterday I felt rubbish and was considering flaking on an engagement I had committed too. In the end I thought nah come on, that person's gone to an effort and you need to give back that thing you borrowed, and I went. And I'm going to go and see my mum for mother's Day even though it will be stressful. But if I'd felt really too ill I can't see myself ruminating on it because I'd have made a valid choice.

But what if you hadn't really felt too ill to go, but had decided not to? Would you have felt guilty then? Or would you have convinced yourself that it was fine to just decide not to bother, even though you were only feeling a bit under the weather?

I think maybe people use 'guilt' as quite a broad term. Sometimes it's really more of a feeling of obligation or 'ought to'. Or it's worry about being judged, when maybe if there were nobody who knew or would be able to judge you, you might not feel the least bit bad about doing/not doing whatever it was.

I only ever felt truly guilty about one thing in my life - something I did decades ago. But I've finally made my peace with it. It harmed nobody, and there is nothing I can do to change it, so I've finally decided to forgive myself.

I think the realising there are only so many hours in the day is so key. If you want to do more of something you will have to let something go.

But anyway it’s often really about being a people pleaser with a tendency to worry - feeling bad because maybe someone won’t like you and/or that might have negative consequences, rather than feeling bad for doing something.

People pleasing is a survival mechanism, so I’m not dismissing it, but it does get mislabelled as guilt.

@EishetChayil

I have never felt an ounce of "mum guilt". Maybe it's yet to come?

Me neither. I've worked full time since DS was 5 months old and I've never once felt guilty about it.

I also don't feel bad about doing things for myself if I can afford it - I swanned out the door to a spin class at 6:30 this morning. Gave DS a kiss goodbye and then left him and DH to it. I'll be a better, calmer more patient person when he gets home because I spent some time looking after myself.