To think antisocial behaviour is more cultural than economic

[lecreusetpeppermill]

I refer to non gang related behaviours in general: noise pollution, shouting/swearing in public, revving bikes, dogs trapped in yards left alone barking all day, stuff like that.
I'e always heard people discussing it in relation to poverty, which I do believe has a part, but do think a lot of it is to do with our cultural groups themselves and behaviours that are passed on rather than being a direct result of poverty.
Many people in poverty do not behave like that.

People used to discuss this a lot years ago when the offensive word 'chav' first gain traction, but I haven't heard much since. I must admit that having lived in a few different places over the decades I've only noticed this type of behaviour where there is a more insular, less educated population, regardless of income.

I know elements of both culture and poverty play a part, but my guess is that it is less income dependent than believed.

A friend of ours is looking to move from a rough area that used to be nice. They complain of streets full of dog poop and farting exhausts, speeding bikes on the local pathways, and a massive amount of trash left in the area that the council never removes.
In their eyes, the social group changed in the past decade, when behaviours like this weren't there.

Do you think i am U to wonder if there's more to it than income?

Just to be clear, by culture i mean interests, behaviours, class, perhaps, NOT race.

I live on a private road.

Whilst there's no rubbish left around nor shouting and swearing there's plenty of anti-social activity e.g. walking extremely yappy dogs at midnight; getting out of Ubers at all hours and having loud mobile conversations on the pavement; saying long loud goodbyes to guests at 2am with lots of shrieking.

Many people are oblivious to the noise they make!

I think it's both, and they are intertwined. It's very difficult to separate out these kinds of elements.

I agree, money doesn't buy you class, respect or decency. My parents live in a cul-de-sac about 90 seconds off Sandbanks so ££££ of an hour. The neighbour to their left has 8 cars and is horrendous about parking and the road is theirs etc. He has been verbally abusive to my mum more than once for parking in what he deems to be his space.

The neighbour to their right is the daughter of a multimillionaire. Wild, LOUD parties several times a week. Often clearly under the influence of substances. Verbally abusive. Her parties have driven her dogs to be very reactive and don't stop barking.

I live on a mixed road with HA and private. The HA come down hard on any complaints of ASB. It doesn't happen often.

Yeh, going off what my friend says it seems people have just changed, rather than the place becoming poorer.

The majority of local houses went up for rental, and whilst many blame that when an area deteriorates - as a renter myself it does feels somewhat insulting. I've always lived in decent places and cared for my home.
In this case the issues stem from owners and renters in terraced rows. Not many children about but a lot of deafening car noise, speeding and revving exhausts around small streets. It's a grim sound and very invasive.
I have no idea why people think this is ok. I really destroys a place and those who can tend to move out.

Anyone who has ever spent any time at all with public school boys on the piss will know that antisocial behaviour has jack all to do with money.

@thepeopleversuswork

Anyone who has ever spent any time at all with public school boys on the piss will know that antisocial behaviour has jack all to do with money.

True, but i can't see them hurtling around terraced streets on a wanky shrieking motorbike every evening. They would have the good grace to do it in their own grounds

I think it’s tow things - firstly the quiet areas tend to be mainly elderly homes, these are then sold off to young families, who generally account for daytime and early evening noise. Swiftly followed by teens groups, parties, friends round, etc

People would be more tolerant if they know each other.

However, the loud people seem to stick together and like showing off together - love to be watched, live the drama. It’s nothing to do with money! Just selfish people being selfish.

From some of the stuff ive seen, it's more like an apathy.
A disinterest in dignity or caring for anything.
I am talking of lower income areas here, where I did notice noise pollution was at it's absolute worst.
But I still don't think it is income related behaviour, more that a trend develops in sealed off communities where there's no impulse to get out, learn more or complain.

It might just be me but I hear far less farting exhausts in middle class areas. I think it's a tribal thing, even though every social group will have it's own deviants!

far fewer, not less.

My opinion,people are just a lot more selfish now a days,they don’t care or take other peoples feelings or wellbeing into consideration,it’s nothing to do with poverty it’s how they are brought up,I grew up in a “poor” area them that had money were the worst,

Mostly it is an odd combination of both.

I know someone with near zero culture and no money, they don't act anti-social in the loud and chavvy sense, but they are secretly they are a sex pest.

I also know a family who aren't very well educated but are raking it in, are very social and have parties (piss ups) all the time with their 1001 facebook friends and neighbours.

Is it a symptom of an increasingly fragmented society? People don't feel like they matter, don't feel listened to or valued, so it's a subconscious attempt to be heard? I might not like the guy with the stupid exhaust, but I know he exists and, on some level, that's validation for him.

If you think about the extent to which we've moved away from doing things collectively - a process accelerated during lockdowns - it makes some kind of sense. More likely to drink at home than go to the pub, more likely to work from home than go to the office, more likely to shop online than go to a physical store, more likely to stream a movie than go to the cinema, kids more likely to attend organised groups rather than hang around with the other children who live nearby, more likely to talk to people online than face-to-face. It all adds up to a sense of disconnection. Making a noise at least draws attention to you, even if that attention isn't ultimately positive or approving.

I don’t think culture or economics have any real impact on the perpetuation of anti-social behaviour, rather it makes a difference in how we respond to it i.e., anti-social behaviour in an upper/middle class setting is tolerated and excused far more readily than for the working class.

I live in a middle class new build estate now and the shit the teenagers get up to around here is 100% the sort of stuff they do/did send the police round for in the estate I grew up in.

YANBU. We live nearish to a town that's "rough" in the sense of no niceties, litter, fights, groups of youths hanging around etc. We've lived nearer and actively moved further away due to all this.

It's actually more expensive than where we currently live, despite our new area being considered much nicer.

I totally agree with you; poverty plays a part (and undoubtedly the areas with lots of council housing/flats has more problems than the leafier areas) but as does culture. I guess its cyclical, living in an area with antisocial behaviour makes you despair and maybe some don't bother caring after a while due to feeling hopeless. And those troublesome kids influence others at school etc etc.

Those who don't like it tend to move away.

Interesting subject.

I wonder if it’s a case of people staying in more and entertaining more at home instead of going to pubs, cinemas, clubs etc..

I also think social media has lead to a lot of performance ‘acting out’ for likes and hits. Everything is broadcast online now. Living quietly doesnt make you rich or famous in the land of Insta/YouTube/TikTok.

“True, but i can't see them hurtling around terraced streets on a wanky shrieking motorbike every evening. They would have the good grace to do it in their own Grounds.”

I think is literally it though - you don’t see the bad behaviour cos they have space to get away with it. The worst boy I ever met was an 18 yr old harrow graduate, he literally crashed a borrowed car into someone’s house and ran off leaving a female passenger inside… on private grounds.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory

I don’t think culture or economics have any real impact on the perpetuation of anti-social behaviour, rather it makes a difference in how we respond to it i.e., anti-social behaviour in an upper/middle class setting is tolerated and excused far more readily than for the working class.

I live in a middle class new build estate now and the shit the teenagers get up to around here is 100% the sort of stuff they do/did send the police round for in the estate I grew up in.

My experience isn't that at all. The antisocial behaviour just doesn't exist in the same quantities where we live than the other local town.

If I'm brutally honest, the main difference in our areas are numbers of social housing and ethnicity. The cost of private renting and buying is similar in both areas. The rough area has some excellent schools. But it undoubtedly has more antisocial behaviour, most notable in the evenings when you really wouldn't want to wander around on your own.

We live on a lovely estate, with green spaces, cared for public areas, fields, a lake, community centre and play parks.

The lake area has just had lots of work done to it and saplings have been planted in other areas. This weekend, a group of young people have removed and thrown around, the protectors for the saplings and the stakes that were supporting them.

It’s a shame they have nothing better to do. I don’t imagine at all that it’s the majority who behave like that, but a minority can cause a lot of damage.

Some interesting viewpoints here.

I wonder about local councils too.
Where i used to live it seemed that the council just gave up on certain areas. Anything broken or dangerous was removed quickly or repaired in higher tax bands and yet ignored and left to rot in the lower ones. This was a labour council, but im not sure it would matter what party is was to be honest.

It's like they deliberately let some places go. As if it is intentional.
One area of council flats, used to be quiet and quite pretty, changed almost overnight - smashed windows, arson, motorbikes dotted about and lots of drug activity. No exaggeration the change was almost overnight.
Surely that is due to council decisions and a willingness to allow antisocial people in, who were likely evicted from other wards.

My friend's rough area change dover the course of a few years.No council housing there, but a very homogenous demographic.

I truly believe that mixed and diverse households (income brackets) keep an area balanced in a positive way. Not particularly that possible nowadays.

"I truly believe that mixed and diverse households (income brackets) keep an area balanced in a positive way. Not particularly that possible nowadays."

This. The worst thing for a community can be isolation/a lack of inclusion (whether perceived or actual) breeding prejudice and resentment. Whether that's fancy gated developments giving residents a false sense of superiority or council estates stigmatising residents.

A lot of London areas I've lived in (and my current one) manage this in part because there is limited space for huge detached houses with high walls.
Everyone is rubbing along with neighbours, in mixed housing stock, in close proximity, because they have to. The kids are going to school together (no grammars here and few can afford private schools in reality), people are sharing public transport together (not many can drive to work).