when people advise you to just 'retrain'

[nuttybiscuit]

AIBU not to get it?
What is this legendary training and career goal that will materialise at the end of it, if you haven't already succeeded?

I see it a lot on advice threads, whenever someone is struggling - can you not retrain ? new career, etc.

Take my friend for example, has run a successful business for 20 years but has been hit hard by pandemic. She is still doing ok but not near enough to keep up her outgoings (rent, travel, materials, etc). She is stumped as to what to do but at 49 can't see what career she could go into now that would be very different to her old work (graphic design).

How easy is it really to do that, to just retrain altogether and get onto a completely different and good career path after 40?
Wouldn't it be better to take the already existing skills and try to branch out?

Is it realistic or are the ones advising it just full of bs?

@PakkaMakka

I think a lot of people who suggest it aren't aware of the financial cost that comes with fully retraining. It used to be relatively achievable to do a 2yr full time or longer part time course, eg a master's or similar professional qualification (eg for healthcare, finance, IT) and go into a new role. Now pretty much any course will mean 18-30k of debt just on fees, before taking into account the loss of earnings while studying. Given the wages of a lot of jobs havent risen with inflation the investment just isn't viable any more. There are a few exceptions but usually for jobs that not many people want - secondary school teaching for maths and science, social work etc.

True. Ive got 45k saved and want it for my old age as i have no work pension and am self employed. I know it will dwindle over time, but throwing up 20-30k on training would concern me.

But then i am not currently needing to, so it's somewhat irrelevant, but if i did.....

I guess my op was concerned with the possibility of that, and how hard it might be if you were struggling. I have seen this advice given out to single mum's on benefits and have no idea how they could do it. There might be help available to them though as they may qualify for assistance, i dont know, but that is still a loan nowadays.

I did my studying on a grant and very low loan. It was so much easier in the 90's.

If i ever struggle, i will have to find ways of expanding my already existing skills (art), which is precarious but still my profession. I had the good sense to pair up with another bloody artist instead of a 'wealthy man' so we are at least in this boat of madness together

I highly doubt some creative work with directors, a few celebs and ikea would cut it on my CV if i wanted to go into health care. It's impressive in the arts but sadly not elsewhere.

Also, my initial certificate in counselling all those years ago..........if i topped it up now it would be far more expensive. Not degree level, mind, but at least 5k.
Then afterwards i would need to continuously pay for retreats, personal therapy and god knows what. I had a friend who did counselling into his late 60's and it fleeced him alive. He might be an outlier but I imagine it is a career mostly accessible for the privileged.

@wincarwoo

Retrain in Salesforce. Loads of jobs. Good pay. Flexible.

No-one will give you a chance to train in salesforce.

I retrained at 45 to get into a well paid role. However, I had many things going in my favour. I hadn't done a degree previously so I got the student loan for undergraduate. I was also working only part time so I wasn't taking a hit on my finances. I was able to work around my studies.
I don't care about the debt because I could not have achieved my salary without my degree. Student loan repayments are annoying but I'm still much better off than I would have been without my degree. So it is possible sometimes to retrain. I'm very grateful that I was able to.

It’s like when Tories think that anyone can start their own successful business.

Tons of people retrain during their careers. It doesn’t mean doing a masters (ironically, that’s a very old fashioned idea). You can do career switching or retraining placements, apprenticeships or just network into other roles, even within the same company. I know people who went full time into side voluntary work.

A ton of people left hospitality over the past 2 years and most them “retrained” into other professions and refused to go back. It’s a real phenomenon.

DH did this at 40. He took a vocational Masters in a specific professional discipline, as his transferable skills were general and wouldn’t get him a job in a professional role. He took the loan for his fees (went full time for a year, which was best for us as he could get back to earning more quickly) and contributed to household expenses from his savings (I have always been the higher earner and was happy to give him this chance to take time out in order to be able to catch me up).

He was in his first professional role in 9 months, while still finishing his dissertation, and has been successfully employed in his new career for the last ten years.

so, we need transferable skills?

If we dont have any? We might as well stay in similar field i suppose.

@nuttybiscuit

so, we need transferable skills?

If we dont have any? We might as well stay in similar field i suppose.

I find it very hard to believe that someone who's done a job for many years has no transferable skills! My 17 year old has plenty from his part time job at Tesco.

The "retrain" comment is party to encourage people to think about what skills they actually have and what other areas they could be used in.
So I'm guessing your graphic designer friend has many skills such as working to deadline, working under own initiative, is creative, can follow instructions, works with client to understand their requirements ... They can work out which of these skills/activities they most enjoy doing and look to see how they get use those in a different sort of job. For example, would they be interested in strategy, project management, marketing, copy writing (some ideas off the top of my head). All of these require "retraining" from the point of view that it's a different job, but this may not necessarily be costly or skills that are used for something different currently can be repurposed.

I don’t really understand your scepticism.

You might as well sneer at the existence of bank holidays. People retrain all the time. It is a real thing that exists. It is not a fake Mumsnet meme.

You seem to be suggesting that no one can retrain or that retraining is an unrealistic expectation but you haven’t really given any evidence why.

Re transferable skills, as I said before you can retrain into different roles within the same industry. You don’t have to leave an industry to retrain. For example, if you decide that you don’t want to be an artist anymore or your friend decides she doesn’t want to be a graphic designer, she could look around at all of the roles that interact with her current role. Then she can decide to do some training or shadowing or volunteering in order to learn more about how to move over into that related role. It’s often easier to retrain that way because you already have good relationships with suppliers or clients and you already have an understanding of the industry but from a different position.

Again, this happens all the time. How old are you?

Can your friend do design freelance or work at another agency?

It’s more that her own business has become difficult is that right

The OP has indicated she’s in her late 40s.

I guess it’s a combination of perception and hard reality. Some people happily take out a student loan / postgrad loan, and feel entirely unburdened by the prospect of repayment - viewing it more as a tax, and one they may never have to pay. For others it’s a worry.

And then, living on very little income, or working on top of studying, might seem feasible for one year perhaps, but impossible for three. It depends on circumstance and, maybe, what one is prepared to sacrifice for a long term goal.

But yes - countless people are retraining. It’s joyful.

I think it’s unrealistic advice. I already have a Masters degree and I can’t get any more student loans or funding for further study. I looked into a two day remote training course with a corporate training company but it was £600. So I’m not going to be able to afford very much training! And I don’t think employers will suddenly be falling over themselves to hire me because I’ve done a two day course. If they don’t want me with the Masters I already possess then I don’t think a two day course (or even another Masters) is the answer.

How easy is it really to do that, to just retrain altogether and get onto a completely different and good career path after 40?

In my 30s I went to University and then on to teaching.

In my 50s I left teaching and retrained for something I had never heard of, am currently self employed and looking at setting up a second small, unrelated business because I have the time and inclination.

Retraining for my main business cost less than £500, including setting up and starting to trade.

Second business is an offshoot of a hobby and so will cost me nothing but time and effort, initially.

It depends what you want. To run an empire or earn enough to live off.

Maybe be a book keeper, may SE people need those!

Just retrain!

Just adopt!

Just take in some ironing!

All rubbish.

I think YABU sorry, because I suppose you might be right in some circumstances but in the case of the Graphic Designer - theres plenty of alternative options with a slight refocus.

For example I work in built environment - There are all these jobs I am looking to outsource as dont have the time to be fannying around and would be suited to a retrained/ tweaked graphic designer. I would like a draughtsman / CAD monkey to make drawings changes and reissue; I would also like someone who will do 3D renders, visualisations and potentially walk though models.

For my private clients I would like someone who can take a set of drawings and hand watercolour render them as a final 'thankyou' memory gift when the project is built as a nice touch.

I also would like someone to do all my social media/ marketing/ website stuff so its all branded and consistent.

There is so much stuff a graphic designer would be suited to IMO.

Open University isn't cheap anymore either. I managed 3 short courses a decade ago but had to drop out and I will have to pay if I ever take it up again.

My mum’s cousin retrained to become a nurse after not really doing much with her life. She qualified as a nurse aged 55

LTB!

@EishetChayil

Just retrain!

Just adopt!

Just take in some ironing!

All rubbish.

Here is the MN Mature Study and Retraining board. It has been running since late last year. Set up purely because there was a demand for it from MN posters.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mature_students

I guess you can draw your own conclusions.

(Though I’m uncertain of your wider point. Are you saying that no woman can ever change her job / role / position after, what - 21?)

YABU because retraining doesn't have to mean getting another degree or moving to a completely different field

Someone upthread mentioned all the people in hospitality retraining, this is usually because their skills in multitasking and dealing with the public are enough to get an entry-level job in another field, so it doesn't cost them anything.

My DH is currently retraining from retail to the heritage/tourism industry, it's not costing us anything

So you may be right that it's difficult for artists who don't want to take another degree to retrain, but that is a very narrow way of looking at 'retraining' so YABU to reject the whole concept

You are so right. I 'm in my 50s and get that said to me. It's all well and fine until you look into the reality of it. Virtually impossible. It's even more galling when it's a person in their 20s or 30s saying it. They really have no concept of the barriers to the reality they are proposing.

I'm on my third career now. I'm now self employed. I left my original career in my late 40s.

@stripeyflowers

You are so right. I 'm in my 50s and get that said to me. It's all well and fine until you look into the reality of it. Virtually impossible. It's even more galling when it's a person in their 20s or 30s saying it. They really have no concept of the barriers to the reality they are proposing.

What sort of thing ould you be looking at?

I didn't find it difficult. I just had to look wider than I first felt comfortable with. Once I did that I was quite surprised how, at 53, I could just get up and get on with it!

Seriously - who is saying just retrain?

No one could be stupid enough to imagine it’s an easy decision or process. And it’s harder the older one is - I know this through my own recent, personal experience.

But I also know it is less impossible than many people imagine before they’ve fully researched their options.