Not sure what to do, need advice NHS

[HappyMummy567]

Ladies, I’m in a bit of a pickle and I don’t really know what I should do (if I’m not being unreasonable that is).

Today I was sent to A&E for chest pain to be check for pulmonary embolism after an operation under general on Wednesday. Was told I need an ECG and blood test. Was called for ECG and bloods into a small Consultation room (think one desk, one chair & one bed) and got on the bed for an ECG, consultation room door stayed wide open and I could hear all noise from A&E waiting room just outside. Nurse had to remove my shirt and bra but only half closed the curtain, I was ill and felt vulnerable but just let her get on with it, then someone strolled into the room, thankfully just another nurse and she left again. After ECG I got dressed, and sat on chair next to (less than 2m) from the bed for the nurse to take bloods.
Another nurse then came in with ANOTHER PATIENT to ‘fit his cannula’ whilst my nurse was trying to find my vein. The other patient was a prison inmate with two police officers guarding him (not chained if that makes any difference), one of them standing behind my nurse near the bed I had just vacated and the other blocking the door way. Essentially trapping me in the room with a prisoner who, for all I know, could be serving time for anything from shop lifting, identity fraud to rape & murder.

Whilst in the room I mentioned that it was the strangest situation I’d ever been in but I was ignored, my nurse was asking me personal info about if I was on blood thinners and my chest pains etc, and then told me to wait back outside in the waiting room for my results. As I went to leave she said ‘What is your name & date of birth?’ I looked at the policeman in the doorway and he said ‘She needs your name and date of birth’ which I then felt I had no choice but to give to my nurse, and subsequently: the prison inmate (announced as such by one of the policemen when he was checked into reception) his two police guards and the nurse putting a cannula in his arm.
I left the room, went into the toilets, sobbed and messaged my husband. He told me to complain to someone but there wasn’t anyone to talk to who wasn’t in earshot of the inmate & his guards who were now back in the waiting room and I was scared (maybe unreasonably so) that something would kick off.
I told hubby to come and get me and I left without my results. I phone the hospital after I left as a courtesy explaining I had left and the reason behind it so as to not waste anyones time. They just said ‘oh, well I can’t give results out over the phone’ (I didn’t ask for them).

So, I’m right IN the situation and was scared by the position the hospital put me in and lost my trust in them so everything feels a million times worse and nothing actually happened physically to me but surely that can’t be right?

Regardless of him being a prisoner firstly, you don’t share small consultation rooms do you? It was like going to the Drs and then another doctor walks in with another patient and just starts treating them next to you.
Secondly, I dont know what the guy with a slash on his face is in prison for, how do I know if he’s a risk to me? So to put both of us in a room with free access to the sharp needles hanging out both of our arms shows no duty of care surely?
Thirdly, that guy and the police officers have my personal information now when the hospital has a obligation to keep health data secure.

I hate complaining and I have nothing but praise for the NHS but the wait times were 2hrs 50mins no where near the 4hr limit so I can’t understand why we both had to be treated at the exact same time in the same room. Regardless of what pressure the NHS is under surely members of the public have the right to confidentiality. My husband wasn’t allowed in the waiting room but apparently it’s ok for 4 other people to attend my consultation without my consent?

Any ideas if this is standard practice in all NHS hospitals? As in, am I over reacting to something that is fairly standard proceedure?

Sorry for the long rant and thank you if you made it this far xx

Yanbu, you should have had privacy

But neither of you had " needles hanging out if your arms" - the needles are removed and only the plastic cannula is left. Unless you are talking about having blood taken with a needle, in which case the health care professional is with you and removes the needle before they leave you.

@betwixtlives

yabu. There was zero risk of him harming you if he was under police guard. not sure why being in the same room is a problem

I was thinking this. Also why would he be remotely interested in your name or date of birth ? Your having blood done he really wouldn't care would he I think you are being way over the top tbh

If you had been admitted you would have multiple consultations with multiple people on the ward and only a curtain round you (if lucky) which blocks no sound whatsoever. You would repeat your name and dob for every nurse, doctor and medical student. Be woken multiple times a night to do the same thing and have many other unknown strangers sleeping next to you. Let's not even start thinking about commodes or bed pans. It's not pleasant but it is normal for hospitals.

I don't think you were being unreasonable at all. This is A&E not a phlebotomy clinic in at a GP or health centre and it's supposed to one patient in each triage area.
I also think it was incredibly inappropriate for the policeman to interject in your interaction with the nurse, frankly it's a shocking lack of emotional intelligence from TWO public service professions, who should have better understanding.
It is also out of order to not allow patients to have a companion/advocate present due to covid but allow multiple strangers pile into a small space. This left you outnumbered by people not involved in your care whilst distressed and vulnerable.
You have my sympathy and you should absolutely complain both directly to the A&E department directly and PALS.

Not acceptable, but deemed acceptable in the NHS, unfortunately. See also the special NHS soundproof flimsy cubicle curtain that guarantees dignity and confidentiality...

If he was a prisoner he wouldn't have been with police it would have been prison guards.

Either he was with police as he's committed a crime but during being detained he's needed medical attention so they've had to bring him in to a&e for that.
Or he's a prisoner with prison guards who needs medical attention. - if he was a prisoner he would only be handcuffed depending on his crime or based on how likely he is to be a danger or escape.
We've had many prisoners some into our clinic heavily handcuffed and feet chained together and then to a guard and other come in with nothing laughing and joking with the guards like old friends..

As someone who works in a health setting within the nhs, my department doesn't have enough room for each individual patient to be in separate rooms we unfortunately need to bring people into the same room. If I'm sharing a room I personally will ask my patients to confirm their d.o.b but instead of asking for their address I'll just ask them if it's still 'rainbow road' instead of saying '123 rainbow road' out loud so the other patient can hear, as this still confirms the patient but doesn't give exact details out.

Obviously if you don’t feel happy about your experience then you can complain, but in a busy a&e setting unfortunately it may be a case of them having to share rooms to keep the waits down, the NHS is under a lot of pressure and there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done where there aren't people who aren't left upset or unhappy with the free treatment they're getting!

@n3wmum20

If he was a prisoner he wouldn't have been with police it would have been prison guards.

Either he was with police as he's committed a crime but during being detained he's needed medical attention so they've had to bring him in to a&e for that.
Or he's a prisoner with prison guards who needs medical attention. - if he was a prisoner he would only be handcuffed depending on his crime or based on how likely he is to be a danger or escape.
We've had many prisoners some into our clinic heavily handcuffed and feet chained together and then to a guard and other come in with nothing laughing and joking with the guards like old friends..

As someone who works in a health setting within the nhs, my department doesn't have enough room for each individual patient to be in separate rooms we unfortunately need to bring people into the same room. If I'm sharing a room I personally will ask my patients to confirm their d.o.b but instead of asking for their address I'll just ask them if it's still 'rainbow road' instead of saying '123 rainbow road' out loud so the other patient can hear, as this still confirms the patient but doesn't give exact details out.

Obviously if you don’t feel happy about your experience then you can complain, but in a busy a&e setting unfortunately it may be a case of them having to share rooms to keep the waits down, the NHS is under a lot of pressure and there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done where there aren't people who aren't left upset or unhappy with the free treatment they're getting!

It isn’t free treatment, we pay for it in our taxes. Possibly not enough, but we do all pay.

I think the most thing you’re in danger of is an undiagnosed PE. You should have stayed for your results. Please go back asap. Prisoner is irrelevant.

Please explain to me what is so hard in saying:
"My name an other data is personal info, let's step out to a more private location"?

@TheSunIsStillShining

Please explain to me what is so hard in saying: "My name an other data is personal info, let's step out to a more private location"?

It may not be hard to you but when people are vulnerable or potentially have other health conditions such as anxiety they may not be able to advocate for themselves in such a situation. In the OP's situation she has not been allowed to bring someone with her who could advocate on her behalf or give her enough comfort/confidence to do so for herself. The onus shouldn't be on the patient to advocate for basic privacy and respect when they are vulnerable either, if patients are going to need to share spaces staff should be informing patients, managing expectations and addressing concerns.

I don't agree with you sharing a small space but not sure it would be breaking policy. I would have asked to move if I felt I uncomfortable and I would not have given my details in front of anyone.

I think you should go back with your husband and explain to the desk you left as you felt unsafe and didn’t want to give personal details with someone else listening. You need to know what is going on medically and they wouldn’t give details over the phone.
Were they police officers or prison officers?

Yabu. A&E is stretched. The personal details you shared are no different to what most people would share in a busy gps reception area. You were in no danger.

Also this is how infections like covid spread, and the paper cover on the bed not changed between patients is grim even if it’s busy.

Honest to god, none of that would have even crossed my mind. How different we all are.

When i was in hospital I was in a ward that had a chronic alcoholic on it who had cirrhosis. She kept trying get cash off the old ladies, desperate to go and buy alcohol I suspect. I remember thinking I bet they don’t get this at Bupa. Thats the NHS - everyone is entitled to treatment and they don’t have the time or space to segregate. It’s not what you need when you feel ill and are vulnerable but that’s how it is.

That's absolutely awful. I'm not surprised you left. It was a consultation room, not a ward which would have been different. Not sure what you could do now but I agree that was very wrong.

As I nurse I ask that you complain. How many other people have been put in positions like you but don’t complain, and it continues.
And I think it does make a difference that he’s a prisoner under guard, it makes you feel at risk.

@TheSunIsStillShining

Please explain to me what is so hard in saying: "My name an other data is personal info, let's step out to a more private location"?

because she is a patient attending A&E, not a customer in a hair salon.

I think you’re being slightly unreasonable but I am really sorry that it upset you and it’s always horrible to cry so I am really sorry to hear that.

Your name and date of birth although yes it is confidential information I wouldn’t really be too worried about someone overbearing. Anyone who has Facebook has their name and DoB displayed on there for all to see.

Most phleb procedures are not in private rooms. I’ve sat in a room of literally 20 people before having my blood taken and A&E is a high traffic environment so not surprising you were sharing a room.

It’s a shame you waited so long to be seen and then went home. If you needed medical advice enough to go to A&E I’m not sure why you didn’t wait to get the results.

But yes when taking off clothing the door should’ve been closed.

Thank you to everyone commenting, it’s good to get a broad range of answers, makes you think.

Sounds like it is common place for shared consulting rooms like that, I’ve just never experienced it, it’s always been a one-in one-out process, you get called into a curtained booth or small consulting room, give blood, have ECG or whatever you need and then sent back out to waiting area - I most definitely do not expect a private treatment room just for me to hang about in for my treatment - we all share the rooms I’ve just never known it at the same time before.

The fact that he was called ‘an inmate’ by the police (not prison guards) lead me to believe he was ‘an inmate’ it was not an assumption I made and I think it does make a difference because if he wasn’t ‘an inmate’ then there would have been two less people in the room. If he wasn’t a threat to the nurses, members of the public or himself, why did both the guards need to go with him into a room with only one point of entry/exit and no windows? Why not wait outside the door, if he’s not going anywhere and if he’s not a risk of harming anyone what is their purpose within the treatment room? Surely he is entitled to privacy as much as the rest of us.

@JMAngel1

I think the most thing you’re in danger of is an undiagnosed PE. You should have stayed for your results. Please go back asap. Prisoner is irrelevant.

This. OP, regardless of whether you make a complaint or not, please make sure you have your results and treatment plan. PEs are no joke.

If he was with police he wasn't a prison inmate. They come with guards and various different types of chain. I suspect he's just been arrested instead. I agree with pp, would you have felt the same if it was an old lady or a mum with kids coming in the room for treatment? I don't think the rude should have asked your name and DOB in front of them but presumably you have given those details in public at the desk when checking in that anyone in the queue could hear anyway. Your name and DOB are not health records by the way.

Totally and utterly unacceptable. I was a prison nurse for years and you NEVER give personal details to a prisoner. They have people on the outside who can track you from name and date of birth. A prisoner should always be segregated in their own side roo. You should not be anywhere near them. Make sure you put a huge complaint in via PALS and take it as far as you can go.

I was in a couple of medical settings recently where people's personal details were being more or less shouted out.

Name, address, DoB, phone number, next of kin -- I literally could get all that just by sitting near reception. And a picture (or fingerprints?!) if I had been sly about it.

For that matters, it amuses me that patients are still called loudly by name "Amy Smith?! Is Amy Smith here?!"

I honestly don't know if saying out loud someone's name date or birth etc. is at data covered by GDPR: I think not, because it's spoken. The legal-requirement 'security' part applies to electronic & paper records, not spoken information.

I think going private is how people avoid each other.