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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU to have said no to this request?

20 replies

Akiddleydiveytoo · 17/03/2022 19:47

My 15yo DD has been best friends with a girl (let's call her A) since they started at the same primary school aged 4. A is a lovely girl but she has suffered terribly in the past with various physical and mental health issues which, at one point led to a period of self harming.

She is receiving support and counselling at school and the self harming has now stopped and, for a while she seemed much happier. However, recently A has seemed quite down again and has changed her appearance dramatically (extremely short hair, always wearing long sleeves (always a warning sign) and wearing oversized, very baggy clothes). The other day DD came to me with her phone and asked me if I'd buy something off Amazon for A and she'd pay me back. When I looked at what it was, I saw it was a chest binder. DD explained that, whilst A knew that she had always been attracted to girls, she is now starting to identify more and more as transgender (hence the short hair, baggy clothes and chest binder). I told DD that, whilst I was more than happy to support A in any way I could, I didn't feel comfortable buying her a chest binder without her parent's consent or knowledge.

Apparently A had asked DD to ask me as she felt she couldn't say anything to her own parents as they are quite religious and wouldn't support her. I'm reasonably friendly with her parents (she and DD have been friends for 11 years) and they've always come across as loving, supportive parents but, I must admit, we've never really discussed homosexuality or transgenderism (is that a word?) to know their opinions on it.

Now I'm double thinking my response to A's request as I really don't want A to feel as though she's got nowhere to go for support and return to her self harming ways. As I said, I am more than happy to be there for her and support her as much as I possibly can but I still feel deeply uncomfortable about buying her something like a chest binder behind her parent's back.

I'll try to persuade A to speak to her parents but she obviously knows them better than I do to know how they would react and I don't want to push her into a position which could potentially permanently damage her relationship with them so I'm really torn about what to do for the best.

So,

YANBU - I was correct not to buy the chest binder without As parent's permission (but I will continue to support A in any other way I can)

YABU - I should buy A the binder as she had no one else to turn to.

OP posts:
Santaslittlemelter · 17/03/2022 19:50

Why can’t she buy it off Amazon herself? How expensive are they? Don’t get dragged into this. You can be supportive without overstepping. This is overstepping.

Schwarz · 17/03/2022 19:51

YANBU - chest binders (especially from sites like Amazon) can be incredibly damaging when not used within guidelines. No young teen should be buying them online without proper guided research. They can cause lots of damage!

Also from the other parents POV I wouldn't be happy with someone else's mum getting things like that on Amazon for my child.

I think you did the right thing!

Clymene · 17/03/2022 19:54

No fucking way. Have you seen what binders do to breasts? Horrific

Martinisarebetterdirty · 17/03/2022 19:56

Of course you aren’t unreasonable to not buy something that could damage her body. She may be transgender, she may be confused but it isn’t your job to parent her or to hide things from her parents. Chest binders can be very dangerous as PP said. I personally think you should tell her parents so they can support her.

Meandthesky · 17/03/2022 19:58

YANBU

Binders can be really damaging. I wouldn’t enable a vulnerable young person to harm themselves like that any more than I would buy them razor blades.

SparkleSpangle · 17/03/2022 19:58

It is overstepping and you are right to say no.

However I would invite the friend over and explain to them why you said no, let them know you are not cross and they can always ask you for things and advice and you support them in their choices.

Moodycow78 · 17/03/2022 20:02

Chest binders can cause irreparable harm to young girls, you wouldn't buy her cigarettes would you, no matter how much she may believe she needed them. You couldn't really justify buying her something like a chest binder without her parents knowledge imo. You should encourage her to speak with her parents and not encourage secrets.

pictish · 17/03/2022 20:03

I would explain that being an adult, it would be inappropriate and overstepping boundaries to buy it without her parents’ knowledge. She is 15 so still a child. It’s not your place to get involved.
Say sorry and be nice to her (I’m sure you will be)…that’s all you can do here.

Akiddleydiveytoo · 17/03/2022 20:03

@Santaslittlemelter

She doesn't have a debit card to buy things online. She only has cash

OP posts:
BeforeGodAndAllTheFish · 17/03/2022 20:07

Does you daughter have a debit card?

You need to discuss the dangers of chest binders with your daughter to make sure she doesnt buy it for her friend.

You'll have all sorts of issues with her parents if she suffers damage and it comes to light to your daughter bought it for her.

PatsyJStone · 17/03/2022 20:13

Also whilst it is lovely to care and not want her to not have anywhere to go for support, don’t get too involved. If you do have a chat to her suggest she speaks to someone at school or find some official contact information via your local council such as CAMHS where she can try and access help from professionals. Most schools should have some places to signpost if she can talk to a member of staff as well.

Whywonttheyhelpme · 17/03/2022 20:22

You have done the right thing. Chest binders are dangerous and borderline another form of self harm.

Speak to your daughter and her friend if possible. Offer a safe space & somewhere she will not be judged.

I would also speak to the school discreetly so they are aware of the situation.

TurkeyRoastvBubbleandSqueek · 17/03/2022 20:50

Hi OP, thank you for being so caring, but I am afraid that neither your YABU or YANBU quite cover my choice. I would really like at least several hours to think about this, but I will give you my initial thoughts.
a) How would you feel if "A's" mother took such an equivalent decision for your DD, as you are thinking of doing for hers.

b) Have you looked on the Internet to see if chest binding is even safe or effective for what "A" wants to do? My first thought is that it could damage her breast tissue, maybe even leading to breast cancer in a worse case scenario.

c) You have known "A's" parents for 11 years and think that they are loving (they most probably are, but no-one really knows how someone else would react to any given situation if they had never even discussed it either them before). I think that her mum does need to know her plans, and if you could persuade her to tell her mum - with you present if she would feel happier/safer, then I think that would be the best outcome.

I presume that their secondary school has some kind of pastoral care, if she refuses to talk to her mum could you persuade her to talk to an appropriate person at the school?
If she refuses both of those options then if you know who her GP is, or at least what surgery she goes to, I think you would have to write a letter to them, labelling it private, to only be opened by a GP. Please give them your name and address (email address?), because even though they cannot discuss "A's" case with you, they might want to ask you further questions, and to even verify that you are who you say you are. The responsibility will then lie with the GP about whether they tell the parents or not. I know that at 15 years old they still should, but many would probably take all sorts of things into consideration, some of which you may not even be aware of.

So to sum up OP, no I definitely would not order anything to bind her chests (that sounds little better to me than when Chinese girls/women had their feet bound), but I would tell someone, as suggested above, about her desire to do so. I don't like such young people taking hormone suppressants, but that is my personal viewpoint, as to me I would want them to devope naturally, but once they are 18 (or even 16 with the right expert advice) encourage them to start dressing as the sex they feel they want to be, like having appropriate hair styles, etc, anything really that is not a permanent change, as I feel that the years of puberty, and early adulthood are a maelstrom of emotions, and that until their hormones have had a chance to calm down, and they have at least a few life experiences under their belts, it is not a good time to make irreparable decisions.

Having said all that, it can be very hard not to support some desperate youngsters when you hear them talk, and when they say that ever since they were 2 or 3 years old they have hated all the gender influences aimed at them, which in this case could have been - dolls, clothes, hairstyles, over protectiveness that maybe a brother didn't experience, etc. - these poor children would need exceptional expert help, and maybe to go on suppressing or stimulating hormones when they are still children? If that is the case I can only hope and pray that the experts are there to help them, and with no underlying agendas of their own.

The reason I cannot say YANBU is because you qualify it with saying you won't buy the binders without the parents permission. I am absolutely certain that binders are the wrong way to go, so I wouldn't buy them for someone whether their parents agreed or not.

TurkeyRoastvBubbleandSqueek · 17/03/2022 20:51

By the way, no-one else had replied to you when I started this - I type slowly!

Thewindwhispers · 17/03/2022 21:25

A chest binder is self harm. Bit like buying her a razor.

I’m sorry she’s so troubled. 😢

PrelateChuckles · 17/03/2022 21:29

Binders are harmful.
Why does she think men can't have feminine bodies? Sounds like they are not very "inclusive".

Akiddleydiveytoo · 17/03/2022 21:46

Thanks for all the replies. In response to some of the questions asked

  1. DD does have a 'pre-paid' card that she can use in shops but it's not enabled to allow her to buy anything online yet. It does have the option to do it, we just haven't 'turned it on yet' and when/if we do turn it on we'll be able to see what she buys online via an app so there's no danger at the moment of DD buying A anything.

  2. I haven't read that much on transgenderism (still don't know if that's actually a word) or chest binding. The it's not something I've ever really thought about and the request kind of took me by surprise so I acted mainly on instinct.

  3. yes I would be horrified if another parent bought my DD something like that which is why my initial reaction was to say no. It was only afterwards that I started overthinking my decision and wondering if I had done the right thing. Reading your responses I'm now convinced I did.

  4. I've not seen A since DD asked me so next time I do, I'll encourage her to at least speak to the counselor I know she seeing at school if she still doesn't feel as though she can speak to her parents. At least they will be much better qualified to give her the professional advice I'm not able to

OP posts:
DuckyNoMates · 17/03/2022 21:56

Is it like a corset? You wouldn't buy one of them for her either?

DysmalRadius · 17/03/2022 22:15

Chest binding is just another form of self -harm, so I think you were right not to buy it as it would be helping her to do potentially irreparable damage to her body. I would explain that to your daughter and tell her that being a good friend sometimes means not doing the thing your friend wants if you can see that it's not in their best interests and that, as an adult, you have to feel comfortable with the support you are offering and that doesn't include breast binders etc.

overnightangel · 17/03/2022 22:28

Who the bell is voting YABU 🥴

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