I never liked the acronym BAME I wonder how I’m going to be told to define myself now

[OneDrop]

I just read this

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/16/uk-government-scrap-bame-response-sewell-race-inquiry

One of my grandparents was Sri Lankan but it was Ceylon when I was little.

I experienced racism at school. And after.

My mother was told she was Black, maybe in the 90s. I think at that time it was if you’re not white you’re Black, we must unite.

I’m sure I was once a Woman of Colour.

I think I’m supposed to be mixed white and Asian. BIPOC.

My child and I now belong to group for families ‘visible by colour’ which we are where we live now. I am grateful for a local Black Voices group which has been welcoming.

Although I identify with much of what I read on Black Mumsnetters I accept I am not Black here.

I don’t know what to think about all these different ways to describe and define who I am.

I do know I am, and have always been Nonwhite.

Same here. It’s irrelevant where his dad (or I) was born. Unless there some medical reason (so if there was a higher risk of XYZ that needed checking) but on an application for for a PT job in a shop? Nah.

@SantaCarlaCalifornia I see where you're coming from. I suppose it depends on the context. If what you are interested in is comparing white people versus everyone else, non-white makes sense, but on the other hand it would be strange and, I agree, perhaps offensive to describe an individual as non-white.

I'm not sure the non-man example works since sex is (mostly) a binary thing (though I wouldn't be offended at being described as non-male in the context of a medic discussing my risk of prostate cancer, for example), so to give another... I would be a bit surprised if someone described my nationality as "non-French" while talking about me personally, but if it was a comparison between French people and everyone else, I wouldn't mind at all.

@KittenKong

Same here. It’s irrelevant where his dad (or I) was born. Unless there some medical reason (so if there was a higher risk of XYZ that needed checking) but on an application for for a PT job in a shop? Nah.

Tbh the medical things are a problem because they often go down a road that doesn't relate to symptoms. They try to fit the symptoms to the fixed idea they have that I'm more likely to get x illness.

It stops them looking at the patient in front of them. It shouldn't, but sadly it seems to. My dad had complex health issues in the last year of his life and got very annoyed with that approach.

My doctor remains astonished that I'm not diabetic!

@MrsPear

If you are white but born abroad and live in England you still experience racism. Racism is not white against black. If I’m completely honest if it was our lives would be easier.

Sorry, but I disagree. If you are white but not born in the UK, what you are experiencing is not racism. I don't doubt that you experience xenophobia, and that in itself is wrong and horrible, but it is not racism.

So if injustice and persecution, exclusion and, to put it bluntly daylight robbery (eg wage differentials) can be sliced into different causes, racism, sexism etc they can be understood, tackled and eliminated?

@Porfre, I'm sorry it was lost in translation, I was being sarcastic. But it probably is in bad taste on this subject. My children are mixed race, they have both suffered from some nasty racism in their short lives, as has my husband.

I hate racism with a every fibre of my being. I cannot abide the tribe of white people on MN who think they can decide what is and isn't racist because 'it wouldn't bother them.'

I can't get my head around this at all. The problem with broad ranging descriptors like BAME and POC don't sufficiently allow for community and individual differences and so don't help to affect change. Neither does "brown skinned". I'm Scottish White. I have always been Scottish White. I don't need to think about this unless I'm filling out a form because no one ever asks me questions like "no but where are from originally"! I can't imagine how exhausting it is to constantly be asked to define yourself in different terms.

@lunar1

Sorry should have read it better.

@Nicholethejewellery

I've heard "person of colour" used which I believe is the current "correct" term, the trouble is it gets abbreviated to POC or POCS which obviously sounds like something unpleasant.

The problem is that we're searching for a friendly catch-all term for "non-white" whilst simultaneously believing that the concept of having a friendly term for "non-white" is not politically correct.

I've not heard "from the global majority" before but a quick search it suggests it's just another term for "non-white". It seems a little dangerous though because by stating white people are a minority it immediately suggests they're not privileged compared to others. (If they are a minority, logically they wouldn't have been able to get into a privileged position.)

I think this term 'person of colour' is more frequently used in the USA.

I think here UK a lot of people find it offensive and it is too close to the previous term ' coloured' for my liking.

mmmm... I was told by a colleague (Kenya born & raised, very dark skinned) about 5 yrs ago that she expressly preferred BAME & saw it as most correct term for 'persons of colour'. This was in context where the other obvious alternative (in a document we were writing together) was "non-White".

Seems to me like a minefield for everyone!

I personally wouldn't mind in principle, in appropriate context, being called "non-Black" or "non-Asian" or even "non-man".

Yes it’s an Americanism - DH and DS =>

What a shame we have to identify as anything other than being human, anything else should be irrelevant.
OP, make it clear how you want your ethnicity and skin tone referred to… if anything.

@Helendee

What a shame we have to identify as anything other than being human, anything else should be irrelevant. OP, make it clear how you want your ethnicity and skin tone referred to… if anything.

I kind of agree but then Rachel Dolezal did that didn’t she?

I've always seen BAME less as an identity and more as a grouping to recognise that people in the UK who are not white face a set of issues that white people don't. So they have that one thing in common. But I'd expect an individual person to identify as Black, Chinese etc. Given that the majority of country is white you still need a term for minorities. The problem comes when you then assume that all people under a label are the same - but that's always a problem with any label, it doesn't mean we don't need them. BAME always seemed a bit illogical because Black and Asian people are also ethnic minorities so it's a bit of a tautology. Does anyone know why ethnic minorities was dropped as a term?

I prefer ethnic minorities
And use this instead of bame
I was ok with bme. But not with bame.

It’s tricky because it just lumps everyone on together doesn’t it? Do we need to have an ‘all others’ category? I’m not even sure we do - even if you wanted to make sure that say, resources were being spread around equally, a working class woman of Bangladeshi origins would have very different requirements to a bloke from Saudi, or a doctor from Nigeria.

We always end up scratching our heads of we get a form that asks for this - then usually say ‘chose not to answer’ as there is never the right box to tick anyway.

I've never liked BAME. Although I can't begin to understand what it means to be defined that way, it always seemed outrageous to lump so many different characteristics together like that

Can anyone explain what is wrong with BAME that wasn't wrong with it when it was promoted? What changed?

And who benefits from the churn of terminology and labels? The cynic in me is looking at the industry which runs workshops and training days, which benefits from a regular state of flux so that people need to be trained to keep up with it.

If we need labels wouldn't we be better choosing some and sticking to them?

From the moment bame was used i disliked it. I’m not sure why. Ethnic minorities is fine imo.

There does need to be a collective term as it helps to identify issues.

Can anyone explain what is wrong with BAME that wasn't wrong with it when it was promoted? What changed?

What’s making you think we all liked it but then changed our minds?

It’s always grated.

Did anyone ever like BAME? It’s always struck me as a wanky public sector term. Often over used by young posh white people in meetings. Very lazy.

Even my autocorrect is in on the act. Whenever I try to type “name” it corrects to “BAME” and I have to go back and retype. In what world is BAME a more useful term than name?

I'm really no expert, but it always seemed to me like an attempt to show "we'd" noticed "they're" not all black and then lumped everyone together anyway.

Especially when we got the higher Covid risk. How could every minority have carried the same risk?