Is teaching really that bad?

[Cremeegg456]

I did a secondary PGCE and gained a pass with Merit, and 'outstanding', that was 6 years ago and I've never completed my nqt year.
I know the PGCE isn't representative of what actual teaching is like though but I remember it being what seemed like a lot of unnecessary paperwork, but we also had the assignments on top.

I've done various work with young and elderly people since which I've enjoyed, but I've never made a lot more than minimum wage. Had zero hours contracts, agency work etc.

I did enjoy teaching but I am just not prepared to work evenings and weekends as well, it's just not worth having no life for me. Not prepared to work more than 45 hours a week.

But truthfully if I want a higher and more stable income I think I would have to go into it, if I'm thinking of buying a house, children etc in the next few years.

Would be interested to hear from people as to what their work life balance really is.

It seems bizarre to me to complete a PGCE, with all the work and stress that entails, but then not bother to do the NQT year.

The last PGCE we had was on £26k & had no intention of getting a teaching job. Lots do the training as it's better paid than when you're qualified.

In answer to your question - yes it's hard work. You get lots of criticism from the general public. The pay is ok but not amazing.

I’d say that all but 2 of my colleagues are looking to get out of the profession. Long hours (I did a 13 hour day today), covering for absent colleagues (no lunch break 3 days last week, similar this week), unrealistic expectations (no, covid isn’t over in schools, the children aren’t back “where they should be”) and the fact that we often can’t teach due to other shit has finished us off.

It’s a shame: I like teaching, I just don’t like the job any more.

Does anyone teach in Early years/nursery? Are things dire there too?

I wouldn’t advise you to go into this. I’ve been teaching many years and I’ve never known it this bad. The workload is ridiculous- even worse now with constant emails and setting remote learning for every lesson. Behaviour is challenging and time consuming. I could not do 5 days a week. I teach 3 days in a secondary school but unfortunately have to do school work on my days off as I have my own children who need me to spend some time with them in the evenings. The creativity has disappeared as it is just presenting slide shows. All lessons are based on department slides and the fun has gone. I hate it and I used to love it 15 years ago. But I would never let the students I teach see that as you have to be positive for them. So many fabulous teachers are leaving this profession.

While there are flashes of pure enjoyment when you teach a receptive and motivated class, the attrition created by a combination of feral children, endless meetings, report writing and preparation makes it an awful job. I retired early and went back into teaching for two maternity covers. Awful. Never again. None of my children are teachers. You are right to make your decision, but confused about why you completed a PGCE.

@converseandjeans it's funny my husband and I were chatting about just this last night, you are paid more to train, then your salary drops and it'd take years to be taking home more than the bursary after tax, ni, pension and student loan payments. Lots of new grads do that first year for 28k tax free for some subjects and then never have the intension of fully qualifying. The pay just doesn't reflect the hours put in. They seem to focus on throwing money at these bursaries to try to attract graduates into teaching but do nothing to retain the amazing teachers who have been doing it years. One of my friend's left after 13 years, she spent a year retraining so her income dipped for 12 months, but she's now on 60k 2 years after jumping ship (she went from primary to working in tech). She has her life back and is on 20k more!

There is still absolutely loads of pointless paperwork.

The 'no trust' culture of OFSTEd permeates every school, FE college and now HE too. I tried to escape it after 9 years in FE but it's here now in HE. Education as an enjoyable job is now dead and buried. Get your QTS then go abroad or do something else. It's grim!

I imagine it varies depending on career stage, employer, subject, age group, personal motivation and a range of other factors like any other job. Why not ask the people you studied with who did go on to teach? They’ll have a good idea of the workload in the first few years at least.

I assume that like me you laughed at and then ignored the ludicrous post from the person claiming ‘no other job’ demands a lot of unpaid overtime as that indicated a level of ignorance and lack of life experience that suggested their comments may not be helpful.

I was secondary teacher for over 25 years. I loved teaching GCSE and A level. I also examined A level scripts in summer. I just burned out. Had bad menopause and decided to retire from teaching early. I never minded going in early to avoid traffic and prepping work or staying late to mark. The travel wore me down in the end.

You could always teach abroad?? Something to consider?

I was looking into career changing before COVID so talked to friends and family in teaching. They all became teachers 20 years ago or more and worked ridiculous hours during term time when they started. But only the ones in senior leadership roles routinely do so now. A new curriculum or an inspection tends to drive up hours temporarily but they've developed the material and skills to quickly get back on track.

@misdread. Could I pm you?

I work 4 days (my fifth day is with my two young children so no chance of doing any work!) and usually manage to work 2 evenings plus a couple of weekend hours.

Hardest days are when there is also a parents eve/show/trip/meeting etc so later home. The holidays are great with young kids but the hours otherwise are hard.

I only manage to work a little less now as I have been at the same school for several years so can do certain tasks quicker.

You may need to consider that an NQT year is now more rigorous- it is a two year ECT before you are officially ‘signed-off’ and apparently it is very intense- more assignments and training to do on top of a 80% timetable (so you get 20% non contact time to do ECT jobs and normal PPA jobs)

Not sure if others experienced this, but in post-COVID times, behaviour in secondary school has deteriorated. The hub system which was in place for a year was incredibly hard for many staff and students. Teachers/departments lost the valuable situation of largely ‘owning’ their rooms, which helped to set behavioural expectations in their own area.

Even though most schools are back to normal, behaviour isn’t. Students with additional barriers to learning such as SEN have even bigger gaps than before.

I retired a little early. This was from a school with a very supportive leadership team. I just lost confidence and felt burnt out.

There’s lots of tutoring in London - I could see private students every day if I needed to do so financially - not sure what it’s like elsewhere. Lots of it is online too although, particularly from overseas, (I don’t enjoy that personally, prefer face to face). There are some good agencies which only use trained teachers and pay isn’t bad for an hourly rate. It would be hard to make a whole teachers’ salary though without lots of weekend/evening work and of course, no real chance of any sort of progression.

I'm a teacher and left the UK to teach abroad almost a decade ago. Having a teaching qualification is a ticket to see the world as there are international schools all over the globe. The experience is very rewarding and relocation packages are usually pretty good, although things are a bit more tricky after Brexit, depending on where you go. This is if you are open to travel, that is. I would never teach in England ever again. I love my life teaching abroad and have a balanced life. I have 3 small kids (though the third only arrived 5 weeks ago!).

Speak to some teachers.

In my experience they are a fairly unhappy bunch. I have never come across a teacher who is happy with their job.

Teacher here, I work in an independent school, shortage subject. It is a doddle tbh a very cushy number. Don't be put off by all the naysayers - I've worked in a couple of dreadful schools and burnt out, but once you find a nice school that prioritises teacher well being, it's a really nice job. Also once you've been teaching a few years, you spend virtually no time planning. I only work late about once a month when there are reports, and I very rarely work weekends. I'm prt time now with a toddler but the same was true when I was FT before I had her

I have a teacher friend who’s always on Facebook talking about how hard she works and how tired she is, though I suspect she’s in the wrong job.

I’ve taught for eight years and have just gone on maternity leave with my first baby, and it’s extremely unlikely I’ll be returning to the profession. I love teaching, I love my students, I’ve found this to be the most fulfilling career imaginable in so many ways (having done a number of other office-based/academic jobs before retraining in my 20s), but the hours are long, the extra demands on your time constant and unforgiving, and the job increasingly challenging in the face of a lack of trust between management and staff. Added to which, students need and deserve 100% commitment from you, and with the added pressure of behaviour/lack of mental health support/exams, etc. that means giving a lot of your time outside of the classroom, too. For me, it’s a choice between being the best teacher I can and being the best parent for my own child - working full time would mean being able to do neither, though many in my school do seem to manage by working extremely long hours in the evenings and weekends.

Unfortunately, in your position, you’ve missed the boat on completing your ECT years - not sure what the route forward would be if you wanted to get back into teaching, but if you’re determined not to work long hours for at least a few years, then I would say the profession is not for you. I’ve worked with and managed PGCE students/NQTs with a similar outlook and they haven’t lasted long.

When my husband was a full time teacher (primary) the hours were incompatible we family life. We hardly saw him and led to stress/burn out.

He has been 3 days for years now and that is pretty good for family life. Long days on his three working days (He's in school 7:30 am until they close at 5:45) and a bit of work at home probably totalling another working day over the rest of his week. Hours in sync with school hols.

If you are happy earning 21k ish (after a few years) for 3 days it provides a nice work life balance.

You could dig deep for a full time post for a few years to get mortgage etc and then go part time when you have kids.

@maddy68

Actually you have to complete your induction within 4 terms of completing a pgce ((unless that has changed ) so sadly I don't think you can teach now

This is wrong. Out of date information.

Morning OP - I'm up now because I'm about to start some work. It's the only time of day I have any control over what I do, such is the unpredictability and volume of it all.

DP won't be up as early as me, but as a second in department, he was working until 9 last night. He's currently a mentor for an ECT and is angry at the unnecessary admin for the member of staff and feels it is a significant workload inconvenience at a time when they should be focusing on basics of pupil relationships, subject knowledge, classroom management and marking/feedback.

As a member of SLT I feel frustrated knowing there's only so much I can do to protect staff from the system. Less is getting done on time, more are going part time or taking early retirement, and it doesn't take a genius to work out why. Poor pupil behaviour, the expectation that schools will also be social workers/counsellors, parental demands, constant changing of goalposts, post-Covid recovery and the constant threat of Ofsted have made much of the job untenable. Of course, this has led to a recruitment crisis, but this in turn simply perpetuates all of the issues I've highlighted.

DP and I are (by choice) child free, so can mitigate long hours through a careful combination of deliberately blocking out time at weekends/holidays, lie-ins and lots of outdoor walks in the area we live, but I cannot imagine our lives if we had children. I would not recommend this profession to anyone right now. It is so poorly understood and valued.

@WithRosesAroundTheDoor

A friend of mine was ranting about this the other day and it's just hitting me how right she is. The whole culture around teaching is wrong and really takes advantage of the emotional connection that we have with pupils. In no other job would you be expected to put in so much unpaid overtime. There are no other roles where you would be considered failing and put through capability without hours of unpaid overtime. It's so bloody wrong and is reliant on us being afraid to let the side down.

This post has hit the nail on the head. I got an unrealistic request relating to a timescale last night and it took every fibre of my being to not do it. Instead, I politely replied and explained my realistic timescale for completion, rather than just sitting up until gone midnight doing it, which is what I may have done two or three years ago. Thankfully it was fine, but it didn't stop me feeling pathetically guilty and like I'd let someone down, though.

Yes it is that bad and yes i left ages ago.