Is teaching really that bad?

[Cremeegg456]

I did a secondary PGCE and gained a pass with Merit, and 'outstanding', that was 6 years ago and I've never completed my nqt year.
I know the PGCE isn't representative of what actual teaching is like though but I remember it being what seemed like a lot of unnecessary paperwork, but we also had the assignments on top.

I've done various work with young and elderly people since which I've enjoyed, but I've never made a lot more than minimum wage. Had zero hours contracts, agency work etc.

I did enjoy teaching but I am just not prepared to work evenings and weekends as well, it's just not worth having no life for me. Not prepared to work more than 45 hours a week.

But truthfully if I want a higher and more stable income I think I would have to go into it, if I'm thinking of buying a house, children etc in the next few years.

Would be interested to hear from people as to what their work life balance really is.

why do they simply not ask existing teachers want they want to stay in their jobs? Or at least make SOME sort of tweaks?

Absolutely! There was a workload survey a few years back but I don’t think anything changed as a result of it. We have had countless Education secretaries since then though-all with their own agenda and none seemingly responsible for their party’s Ed policies.

If you scrapped (or seriously reformed Ofsted) and cut back on lesson observations, learning walks and book scrutinies and a few other bits, I could personally name at least ten ex colleagues (excellent teachers) who would probably return!

The people they listen to are largely execs at large MATs whose 'workload and workforce' ideas are often deeply flawed.

My mum is a teacher, she retrained from nursing and it's given her a stable, well paid career where she doesn't actually have to do that many hours. Although she's not worked in mainstream schools for many years, when she did she was hardly working 60 hour weeks, more like a usual 40 hour working week. What she didn't enjoy was the culture and other teachers, she found it difficult to start at 40 having worked in other places. It can be a really good job, but I think there is a lot of peer pressure to do it in a certain showy way, when ready you can just keep your head down and help the kids to great results.

What a nasty comment.

Interesting, who is it who makes up the employees of Ofsted? Former teachers? Bureaucrats? Or just interfering no-clue people?

If you don't want a life outside teaching and you are prepared to be battered from Ofsted , kids, parents , line manages daily and work ridiculous hours just to keep your head above water. And still never be finished teaching is wonderful.

There are some brilliant moments sadly the negatives now outweigh the positives. It's so sad. I used to love it.
I now have a minimum wage job and I've never been happier. I was a good teacher with great results but the pressure!!!

If you scrapped (or seriously reformed Ofsted) and cut back on lesson observations, learning walks and book scrutinies and a few other bits, I could personally name at least ten ex colleagues (excellent teachers) who would probably return!

I think a few years back Ofsted’s Myths documents about what they didn’t want to see, including triple marking and lengthy lesson plans was really helpful in cutting some of the crap.

Unfortunately since then the whole ‘focus on curriculum’ and deep dives have just cranked up all the ‘we have to do this for Ofsted’ bullshit again, particularly in primary.

Ofsted is responsible for a huge, huge amount of workload and stress. One of the big things at the moment is inspectors coming in to do a deep dive into certain subjects - always English and Maths, plus one other. The level of detail and info they want is enormous, including lots of justification around the content and sequencing of the curriculum for each subject - intent; then what is actually happening and how, cross-checking it's all as per the plans -implementation; then how well the ch are learning - impact. A subject leader is expected to be thoroughly knowledgeable about everything in their subject in all classes and all breakdowns of groups in the school, right down to the content of that day's lesson in any given class, and to know the pedagogy behind it all.

That might be a reasonable expectation for a head of department at secondary school, where that subject is their specialism and what they mostly teach, and where they receive increased pay for that responsibility. I'll leave that to secondary staff to agree/disagree.

But now transfer those same expectations to primary, where teachers teach all curriculum subjects and subject leaders are generally paid no more, given little or no curriculum time, and tend to be whoever is there regardless of knowledge or interest. And then put that in the context of smaller schools where members of staff don't have just one subject responsibility but 3 or 4, and might also be the SENDCO. What impact does that have on workload and morale, I wonder?

Ofsted was bad enough before all of this.

Yes.

Awful management.
Constant threat of being managed out of a job.
Completely target and ofsted driven.
Awful kids.
Kids being failed and watching it happen knowing you can’t do a thing because it’s above you.
Entitled parents moaning about said awful kids being disciplined (often plastering it all over social media, how dare little Jonny be told off 🙄)
Minimal staff meaning no free lessons to catch up, no breaks as supervising kids while on ‘lunch’, having to go in early and stay late almost every day.
Drowning in marking and paperwork but no time at all to do it other than at home.
The stress of making a mistake making you ill to the point you can’t sleep, knowing how easy it is to be got rid of (especially as a more experienced teacher, NQTs are much cheaper therefore more desirable than experience)

Its not so easy to say just leave. We have 3 kids to pay for, retraining would take a huge drop we just can’t afford.

I don't think it's always as bad as people make out. I work in a school. Our experienced early years teachers earns £40k. Lots of years of experience means she doesn't have to do much planning outside of schools hours. She admitted to not doing much over the Summer.

I work in the office and I'm always in earlier than everyone and leave later (except senior leadership team).

I think it's long hours in the early years while finding your feet but once settled, it's a pretty good salary for the work.

Also, teachers salaries increase every year irrespective of performance. And it's quite easy to take on additional responsibilities for more money. One of our teachers in 26 and on £43k as a Y3 teacher and head of key stage.

Its a responsible job and you work hard. But it's not thankless and it's not badly paid in my opinion.

How is that a nasty comment?!

Also, teachers salaries increase every year irrespective of performance

Bollocks do they!!!!

They used to, when on main pay scale.

Not now. Academies tend to follow that, although don't have to. But it absolutely is dependent on performance management targets.

How do you know how much people earn??

I do 70 plus hours a work. On average 12 to 14 hour.days and then all day Saturday.

And good luck when you hit MP6 and then have to get through the threshold onto the Upper Pay Scale. It's not supposed to require anything other than experience but many of us have to take on extra things and justify why we deserve it. If not, on MP6 you stay.

And if you move schools, pay portability is no longer a given. I returned to teaching after a couple of years out with my children and had to drop from UP1 to MP3, and that was negotiated up from them wanting to pay me MP1.

I think it takes time to learn and gain confidence and it also depends on you and the school. I work in a very academic, busy day school but am confident and very experienced so enjoy it a lot. I don’t work much during holidays or evenings but do work sometimes at weekends.

Also, teachers salaries increase every year irrespective of performance.

What?!! @EmmaDilemma5 , you might work in a school, but you are completely wrong on this. Teachers at my old school have to jump through hoops to move up the scale, now. And as it's in the school's interests not to have them earn more, fewer and far fewer teachers are following the past trajectory of moving up the scale each year. And at my DD's school hardly any of the mainscale teachers moved up last year. After mainscale, the stress involved in crossing the threshold to the higher level means people aren't bothering to try, unless they're particular ambitious.

And if you move schools, pay portability is no longer a given. I returned to teaching after a couple of years out with my children and had to drop from UP1 to MP3, and that was negotiated up from them wanting to pay me MP1.

Yep. That's an absolutely shocking development. In the private sector, moving on means a rise in salary. In teaching it now means taking a cut in salary. If you're very experienced then either no school will want you, or they'll demand a big cut in salary.

I don't know how many other professions have to deal with that. I've not heard of any.

Job adverts used to say " national pay scale" which meant wherever you were from M1 to UPS3 would be honoured.
Then it became "M1-M6" so anyone on UPS would either need to take a pay cut or not apply.
Now the majority of jobs advertised seem to be " M1-3" only.

I was on UPS2. After 3 years out and a housemove to raise kids, I had to start off again on M4 due to all the schools being Academies and not accepting pay portability. That was 8 years ago. I am still on M6 because of (here are the excuses) no moving up the scale because of finances (unless you were the Trust CEO of course), Covid - for 2 whole years- and a UPS pay freeze. And let's not forget the fantastic performance management target that set a 95% pass rate in a class with 25% SEN and no TA. May as well have just told me to fuck off - there was no hope of ever getting that pass rate.

But I have been asked if i'll take on extra responsibility for free. No. I want to be paid as my experience demands and when I first started teaching I was. Older and more experienced teachers went onto UPS as a matter of course. Now it's rare, and if you are on UPS and dare to be over 50 it's likely that you'll be bullied out.

And even though I am indeed scraping by and would appreciate a raise, it isn't even the worst thing about the job. I haven't even got the heart to go on. I just wanted to point out that pay increases are not automatic. Or even taking place.

Pretty sure leaky office worker emma has asserted all this bunkum before, although the 26 year old on 43k is upping the ante, I think.

Or even, ‘unqualified teachers welcome to apply’.

Honestly I don’t work weekends unless it’s like, report season.
I go into work about 7:45 every morning and leave anywhere between 4:30-6. Usually around 5. I don’t think those hours are unreasonable.

However - my class are a dream, I’ve been in the same year group for a while and my school is honestly pretty sheltered from all the funding crisis compared to schools I was on in my training.

Previously in my career I worked 7:30-6:30 and then 8 hours on a weekend day.

I have had times where I am incredibly low but at this point in time my work life balance is genuinely fine. It’s such a roulette though - it’s never been like this before and may never be like it again.

Teaching is, like many jobs, very very tiring and demanding. I wouldn’t bother with it if you are wary of workload or not utterly passionate about it.

Teaching is a wonderfully fulfilling, fun, inspiring and joyful job. It's been my life's work and I've never regretted the many long hours that have gone into it.
Unfortunately, nowadays, teachers can do precious little of it because they're battling challenging issues through chronic underfunding and constant scrutiny. If every decent teacher was free to do what they love and truly teach, we'd have an energised and happy workforce and much happier children.

Also, teachers salaries increase every year irrespective of performance.

Really? Amazing, don’t have to worry about my appraisal paperwork then!