Is teaching really that bad?

[Cremeegg456]

I did a secondary PGCE and gained a pass with Merit, and 'outstanding', that was 6 years ago and I've never completed my nqt year.
I know the PGCE isn't representative of what actual teaching is like though but I remember it being what seemed like a lot of unnecessary paperwork, but we also had the assignments on top.

I've done various work with young and elderly people since which I've enjoyed, but I've never made a lot more than minimum wage. Had zero hours contracts, agency work etc.

I did enjoy teaching but I am just not prepared to work evenings and weekends as well, it's just not worth having no life for me. Not prepared to work more than 45 hours a week.

But truthfully if I want a higher and more stable income I think I would have to go into it, if I'm thinking of buying a house, children etc in the next few years.

Would be interested to hear from people as to what their work life balance really is.

@doingitforyorkshire

This is a really interesting post, whilst not a teacher, I have worked in areas in which I have experienced similar to many of the teachers on here and have had to explain the realities of the industry/sector I work in to others who have shown interest for various reasons. I think some have been genuinely shocked at the realities of some areas of work, some don't quite believe it until they try it then end up running for the hills!

I'm a teacher and I agree. It's the crowd control which is so endless i think. Especially if you have someone aggressive in your class.

@lightisnotwhite

I honestly wouldn’t do it for the holidays unless you have lots of money already and a serious hobby that needs 4 weeks off on the trot.

28 days holiday can be taken around weekends and bank holidays potentially giving you a 4 day weekend every month, plus a whole week off a year. At a time that suits you and your budget and the things you want to do.
Teaching mean's 6 or 7 week terms ( evenings and weekends) no matter what’s going on in your personal life. No appointments, no afternoon off for something unexpected.

The summer holiday is sold as the big advantage. You get 5 and a half weeks summer holiday. Realistically on a teachers wage that’s still going to be one “going away”; holiday but at peak time, with families everywhere. The rest is time off whether you can use it or not.

OP doesn’t say whether or not she is a parent but once you have school-age children this does change how you evaluate the benefit of the holidays. That being said I had a fine old time in my pre-children school holidays, partly because many of my friends were still studying or went into professions like the Bar which still operate around terms and were therefore available at similar times to me.

I do very little work at home . Been teaching a loooong time so have a cultural memory of the 90s when it really wasn't expected and when the job was more 'relaxed'. I used to be viewed as role model for female work life balance. Interestingly, about 5 years ago I was told off !! Several times. And yet I get everything done.

To me , it isn't the workload outside of lessons. It is the constant, exhausting intensity of the job while you are there - always have to be on your A game. And this is exacerbated in most state schools by inhumanely short lunch breaks.

Also, teachers work with children. Other teachers have a terrible habit of treating working adults in schools like children as a result.

@Piggywaspushed

Also, teachers work with children. Other teachers have a terrible habit of treating working adults in schools like children as a result.

👍👍👍👍

And start thinking along the same restricted lines as children! So more complex logistics get lost and the control we should have over the space is eroded. I could feel everything closing down in me intellectually, all ideas had to be reduced to the simplest function rather than built up.

It’s interesting that you say it’s harder then the 90s. I started then and found the first few years tough but now, I find there is no structure, no framework to work with as teachers and without this, everything falls downwards and needs constant lifting. It is the worse kind of infrastructure to have in a school - more suited to a call centre where the companies pack up over night and there’s a steady train of temp staff.

It's ultra target driven now and , in my core subject, all autonomy and creativity has been sidelined. I find that very sad.

I hate what they have done to English.

Yup. Sigh.

Another Irish teacher here ! Teaching is so different in Ireland .
I work at primary level and earn 78 k ( euro and teaching 28 years with a minor promoted post ) .
I do about an hour extra at home for the month of September.

That's more or less it. Otherwise I am in school for half eight and leave around half two/ quarter to 3 .
I do some research/ send a few emails at home but that's it .
Planning is a fortnightly scheme that takes half an hour but I normally get that done in school time. I don't know any teacher that does much after hours.

@FoodieToo

Another Irish teacher here ! Teaching is so different in Ireland . I work at primary level and earn 78 k ( euro and teaching 28 years with a minor promoted post ) . I do about an hour extra at home for the month of September.

That's more or less it. Otherwise I am in school for half eight and leave around half two/ quarter to 3 .
I do some research/ send a few emails at home but that's it .
Planning is a fortnightly scheme that takes half an hour but I normally get that done in school time. I don't know any teacher that does much after hours.

The difference is just staggering!

What’s your assessment/marking load like? Is writing/sticking in Learning objectives a thing?!
Lesson observations?
Expensive teachers being managed out?
Performance management targets?
Tracking data?
Subject leads in primary having to create curriculum progression maps from scratch despite having no qualification in the subject and getting no extra pay!?

My DH is a teacher in Scotland and loves it. It was a midlife career change and he greatly prefers it to the stress of corporate life. He does extra work at key pinch points, but has the massive holidays to compensate, so I would say it is a pretty good work/life balance, if the job is the right fit for you.

Ireland is a whole other ball game. I taught there for a bit and it is W to how different it is. Also - text books!!!!!! No photocopying and planning every single lesson! I didn’t have a form group either (secondary).

Unfortunately I could only get maternity cover. Nothing long term.

Did I mention the three month long summer holidays???!!!!

What a country to be an English teacher in. I was stunned by the quality of work from the pupils - and the enthusiasm for reading. They are rightly proud of their literary culture and you can feel it.

@Shinyandnew1

What’s your assessment/marking load like? None as I do it as I go ( SET )
Is writing/sticking in Learning objectives a thing?! Not for teachers after their first year . IF class teachers do them they just copy them .
Lesson observations? Only for NQT
Expensive teachers being managed out? No, state system.
Performance management targets? No.
Tracking data? No.
Subject leads in primary having to create curriculum progression maps from scratch despite having no qualification in the subject and getting no extra pay!? No !!

Wow I want to teach in Ireland!

Does everyone just work through set textbooks? Would it be the same in every school? Is there room for discussion/creativity etc or is that built into the curriculum?

No it's not all textbook based at all and there is lots of autonomy / room for creativity ( in my opinion )!
I may be biased but I think primary education is excellent here. Mum of 5 who have gone through the system and very happy with the quality of teaching / learning.

I am a primary teaching and love the actual teaching part of the job. However, since I qualified 10 years ago, it really is only half of the job now. My contract is 13.5 hours per week and I probably work 25-30, which really I resent.

Agree with FoodieToo plenty of scope for creativity, books are a resource only. Nice to be off since 2.30 to enjoy the sunshine!

[quote FoodieToo]@Shinyandnew1

What’s your assessment/marking load like? None as I do it as I go ( SET )
Is writing/sticking in Learning objectives a thing?! Not for teachers after their first year . IF class teachers do them they just copy them .
Lesson observations? Only for NQT
Expensive teachers being managed out? No, state system.
Performance management targets? No.
Tracking data? No.
Subject leads in primary having to create curriculum progression maps from scratch despite having no qualification in the subject and getting no extra pay!? No !![/quote]
The crazy thing is that England could solve the retention crisis in teaching overnight by going to visit some schools in ireland who function like this and implement similar systems. It would save hours and hours of time and I would imagine make many people not want to leave and many more happy to return.

Why don’t they?!

I have to admit you couldn't get me to do it. I've worked in professional jobs for years and I realised over time that none of it actually matters. I now go in, do my job, go home and get paid. I still work in professional settings but my limits are MUCH narrower than they were 20 years ago.

@Shinyandnew1

Someone mentioned this is another thread about teaching in Ireland.

I think that most schools were governed by the church for a long time. Contrary to what most seem to think about RC (the majority) and education, in Ireland it was always a really well organised system (imv). Educational methodologies are challenged, examined and discussed and integrated into a framework that complements the students learning - we seem to do the opposite in England. I only saw it here in private schools - where everything is centralised somehow.

I have also heard many reasons as to why this doesn’t happen here - mostly based on a fear ( I think) of what it involves. It’s an ongoing conversation within the second gen Irish community here as we have some insight into both systems and can see the merits and limitations of them.

I also think having so many different types of schools in England skewers things. Free schools/church/ comprehensive all exist here.

I’m in my third year of secondary English. The first year is hard as others have said - making resources and learning how to efficiently mark/plan etc is time consuming. It’s levelled out now - I get in at 8 and have left by 4.30 every day. Some weekends I do a couple of hours planning. Very occasionally parents’ evenings etc are late stays. Also at our school when year 11 and 13 leave we gain lots of free PPA time so have time to scheme and prepare for September which helps - I imagine it’s similar in most secondaries? It’s not a job I envision myself having the energy for forever but in the right school there is scope to climb the pay scale quickly and have an ok work/life balance. Good luck with whatever you decide :)

@frenchie4002

We get sent to local primary schools to do induction work with the kids in year 6 moving to us in sept during the time we usually teach double gcse or a level

@FoodieToo

Another Irish teacher here ! Teaching is so different in Ireland . I work at primary level and earn 78 k ( euro and teaching 28 years with a minor promoted post ) . I do about an hour extra at home for the month of September.

That's more or less it. Otherwise I am in school for half eight and leave around half two/ quarter to 3 .
I do some research/ send a few emails at home but that's it .
Planning is a fortnightly scheme that takes half an hour but I normally get that done in school time. I don't know any teacher that does much after hours.

Mentioned this to a friend who's a teacher in Ireland and he was staggered.

He says he usually leaves work about 4.30 to 5 pm (sometimes later) and often works at home too. He rarely has a completely free weekend during term time as there's always planning to do.

He said it probably does depend where you teach. Lots of rural schools have split classes (he's in a 3-teacher school), so you have to plan for two or three classes rather than one. It's a Catholic school as most rural schools are, so he needs to prepare his class for Confirmation too. All organisation for the school is split between fewer people. Any extras - for example involvement in school competitions in sport, drama, science etc - are again shared by a few.

My friend is a teacher but the situation is worse for principals of smaller Irish schools. They must teach in addition to their other responsibilities (principals in larger schools don't teach), and the amount of work is overwhelming them to the extent that many are leaving the profession. To quote an Irish Times headline from last September) there is now a crisis in their 'recruitment and retention'.

@OnceuponaRainbow18 really! We are in a three tiered area so I should have said upper school not secondary, sorry. It’s annoying you don’t gain back the free time but nice change of pace I guess?

Haven’t rtft, but my answer is : yes, yes it is.

I thought I would bump up this thread, as I keep seeing calls being issued by the government to recruit teachers, offers of bursaries, etc.

But when things are so bad, why do they simply not ask existing teachers want they want to stay in their jobs? Or at least make SOME sort of tweaks?