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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In this scenario, does it make sense to pay uni fees upfront?

135 replies

enseehammer · 15/03/2022 21:08

DC1 is heading to uni later this year, and DC2 will go in 2 years. I know the prevailing wisdom is that it's unwise to pay uni fees upfront - I've read the Martin Lewis advice on this. However, my mum died recently and I'm about to inherit a lump sum from the sale of her house. There is enough to pay off our own mortgage (when my current low fixed rate ends), and also cover uni fees for both DC's, rather than them taking out student finance and paying the above-inflation interest rate (at a time of rising inflation).

The alternative is to invest the money, either in a rental property or the stock market, in the hope that it grows. But rental yields are being squeezed, and the stock market could be a dangerous bet in these uncertain times - so I'm not sure that either option can be relied on to make a good enough return. (Yes, I know the stock market is generally a good bet in the long term, but if ww3 is about to begin, all bets are off!).

Another argument against paying upfront is that DCs may not have to pay back the full amount if they have a low income, but we live in London where wages are a lot higher than average, and the DC's are both wanting to go into high earning jobs after graduating, so I think its most likely they will both pay back the full amount and a lot more besides.

Aibu to think paying the fees upfront might be a good bet in this scenario?

OP posts:
EmpressCixi · 17/03/2022 17:32

@Blossomtoes

Am I being really stupid? That table makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me.
It’s based on graduating with £45k of debt. I don’t know the RPI or salary % annual increase assumptions but they tend to be fairly conservative. I’ll write out the first few lines.

A graduate with a starting salary of £20k will now pay back £7,207 under the new rules instead of £0 under the old rules. This is because their salary will increase during their 40yr work life...so that they eventually go over the also gradually increasing repayment threshold.

So far so, good. Still a good deal to borrow £45k and only pay back £7k of it. The same for £25k starting salary, repayment will be less than total borrowed.

But once you hit £30k starting salary it gets sticky. A graduate will pay back £71,518 over the forty years...a lot more than they borrowed. Even worse for the starting salary of £35k the repayments will be approaching twice what they borrowed at £86,936.

But someone with a starting salary of £50k (which is minority of graduates), will only pay back £61,744

Now what is median starting salary in U.K. for graduates? £35k
explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/graduate-labour-markets

Coincidence that the starting salary for the middle earner is also the starting salary where you’d pay back the most under the new rules...almost double what you borrowed..., and that the new system conveniently slashes what the high flying, high earning upper classes starting salaries...well let’s say I have my suspicions that it’s the Tories once again sticking it to the average working person.

TrippinEdBalls · 17/03/2022 21:56

And I cannot emphasise enough how much losing 9% of income over threshold impacts long term savings for house deposits and retirement. It’s essentially going up an income tax bracket.

You know what really, really impacts on saving for a house deposit? Being given a house deposit. If OP could do both then that would be lovely but personally I think it's a no brainer to use the money for a deposit not fees.

TrippinEdBalls · 17/03/2022 22:00

If someone won £50K on a lottery ticket, and put it down as a deposit on a £200K house, and left their £45-50K student debts and loans owning (for which they'd be paying for 40 years, and have hanging over them everywhere they went, and which would increase to potentially £60K to £70K or more,) I'd think they were batshit.

I would be open mouthed with astonishment if someone chose to keep renting so that they could pay off their student loan. I would honestly wonder if they'd lost the plot a bit.

WombatChocolate · 18/03/2022 08:25

This is the thing….some people seem only able to think about this in terms of the debt interest. Of course no-one likes the significant interest and fact they will pay much more than they borrowed back. To some degree though, this a red herring if not looked at in context of the alternatives that could be done with the money.

Yes, you will pay debt interest. Yes, in some ways it is like going up a tax bracket…although of course you only remain in the higher bracket if and when earning above the threshold. BUT, the crucial thing is to see it in context of other expenditure.

Someone renting as a single person or young couple in many areas of the country will be paying well well over £1k per month for a small flat. They might be saving for a deposit, but with high rents, even their tiny property, which might also mean large communing costs, might mean they save at best a few hundred each month. With other costs and the life of a young person, by 30 many have only accumulated a few £k or perhaps the amounts needed to get onto a help to buy scheme in a cheaper area of the country. They might not be paying debt interest, but at the point of starting a family, many of these will still be in rented accommodation. Needing a bigger home for kids, resent rise even more, often earnings take a dip or childcare costs are high snd the capacity to save is even less. The house deposit recedes into the distance as a hope, even for lots of decent earning graduates. So yes, they dint pay the 9% month in and month out, but lots also don’t get on the property ladder, or if they do, their minimum deposit keeps them in their starter d flat well beyond when it’s suitable. So the parents have enabled them to have more in their pocket on a monthly basis due to paying Uni fees, but the crucial thing is that the building of the deposit is still interminably slow and not enough.

What difference does that £50k make at maybe 27 or 28? Someone is probably 3 or 4 years into their job. They have an idea of where their lives will be and possibly who with. They have saved a tiny bit and they are finding it hard to save more because rents are so high. They can buy a small property for £275k. Their salary means they could have it if they buy with their partner but they can’t get it as they don’t have the deposit. They calculate it will take 10 years to save it….and what if house prices rise faster than wages? It will be longer still. BUT if the parents then gift the £50k it can happen. Yes, mortgage payments will still be high, but they will have housing security and a foot on the ladder. And then for the next 6 years they live in the flat, paying their mortgage and their student loans which add an extra hundred quid to the monthly outgoings. And their flat creeps up in value.

Then at 34 it’s time for a family. They can stay in their flat, or because they’ve gained equity and had some pay rises, they can move to a house. It might even be possible for one of them to drop down to 4 days a week for a couple of years. They will be continued student loan repayments, but a bit less whilst earning less.

This person is better off than the person who continually had an extra £100 per month because they weren’t paying a student loan, but who never managed to buy, because that £100 a month just never accumulated enough to build the deposit.

When families can give the fees and a £50k or more deposit, we’ll brillliant…of course 2 handouts is nicer and more effective than 1. But many middling and doing well families can scrape together a few tens of thousands as a gift …and that’s quite a sacrifice. It’s a lot of money, given families might still be paying their own mortgages or supporting younger kids or simply not have huge savings of their own. So for the vast majority, it really is an either/or situation and a choice of where the money is most effective is relevant.

A young adult getting £50k from their family for either Uni fees or for housing is extremely fortunate. Some people start to see this as entirely usual and an expectation and actually small fry, because in light of hosue prices £50k doesn’t buy a huge chunk. But that deposit doesn’t have to pay for 50% of a house for it to be worthwhile. Even most from very affluent backgrounds expect to take a mortgage and to be paying a sizeable chunk each month, especially in the early days. Those looking at having tiny ir no mortgages will be looking at parental gifts or inheritance if several hundred £k, not the £60k student fees.

The key is that house deposit. It’s a sum which most young graduates would take many many years to save even when on excellent graduate salaries (which most aren’t) and even without student loans. Those who say use the money for fees seem to think their offspring will quickly amass the vast amount needed for a deposit and the fact the money was spent on Uni fees instead won’t be a detriment.

My question to those thinking if that plan, is exactly how and by when do you imagine your graduate child will have amassed their house deposit if you and no-one else gifts them any money? At what rate will they be able to save and how much will they need and how long will it take?

And if people start then referring to other pots of me ones they can draw on, well the goal palsy’s are changing, because this thread is about having money for either/or Uni fees or housing.

valerianaofficiana · 18/03/2022 08:44

We are not there yet as DC have some years to go, but we will pay the fees for both as, quite frankly, expect them to start their careers on the higher side of the university graduate pay scale.🤓

woulducouldushouldu · 18/03/2022 17:35

Thé rate of interest FROM DAY 1 for new loans starting this September will be over 10%. Personally I wouldn't want to enter into a loan at this rate.

Badbadbunny · 18/03/2022 17:45

We're in a similar situation. What we're doing is paying for the rent and living costs and DS taking the loan just for the tuition fees. So a kind of half and half. Then once he qualifies, review what job he gets and what kind of financial needs he has at that time, i.e. deposit for house etc., and if possible, start to pay off lump sums of the student loan just to stop the interest getting out of control. Pointless paying 4/5/6% interest but only earning 1% on a savings account.

Badbadbunny · 18/03/2022 17:48

@TrippinEdBalls

If someone won £50K on a lottery ticket, and put it down as a deposit on a £200K house, and left their £45-50K student debts and loans owning (for which they'd be paying for 40 years, and have hanging over them everywhere they went, and which would increase to potentially £60K to £70K or more,) I'd think they were batshit.

I would be open mouthed with astonishment if someone chose to keep renting so that they could pay off their student loan. I would honestly wonder if they'd lost the plot a bit.

Thing is that the interest is ridiculous on student loans, so if you're going to earn a decent amount of say £50k per year, you'll pay a shed load of interest on top of the amount borrowed and probably still never pay it all off, although you'll have paid off the amount borrowed plus lots of interest. The illustrations of how much you'd end up repaying on incomes of £40k, £50k, £60k, £70k are sobering!
WombatChocolate · 18/03/2022 17:57

Yes, but the alternative could be 20 years of paying rent because you can’t afford to buy as you never accumulate the necessary deposit. That’s a much bigger bill!

No-one wants to pay the debt interest. The question is whether that is a bigger evil than not having enough money to buy property - see my comments upthread about the possible impact of this when in 20s but also when in 30s having a family.

At what are do people imagine young adults can save towards a deposit in a monthly basis? At what point and after how long do people imagine they will have sufficient to put down a deposit and buy? It’s really a question of where money can be best targeted, rather than purely about avoiding the interest payments. That saving of a hundred or possibly a couple of hundred quid a month won’t make a massive difference to them if they can’t afford to buy. Given house prices are so high in many areas, even those with good degrees and decent paying jobs struggle to get the deposit together. Those extortionate rent payments which aren’t helping to pay off their own house can be far more than the loan repayments.

alwayslearning789 · 26/03/2022 18:51

"It’s really a question of where money can be best targeted, rather than purely about avoiding the interest payments."

"That saving of a hundred or possibly a couple of hundred quid a month won’t make a massive difference to them if they can’t afford to buy."

@WombatChocolate you make some really good points, particularly for those who are "middling" rather than confortably rich.

Food for thought - Thank You

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