Emily Oster on Breastfeeding - minimal benefits.

[IamOvercome]

I am pregnant with my first and am an economist so I was recommended books by fellow economist Emily Oster. The books don’t give advice. They review the statistical studies underlying pregnancy advice and whether they are any good or not.

It’s been such an eye opener. For example it is pushed pushed and pushed some more that breast is best. But when you review the evidence there is minimal evidence for benefits of breastfeeding for babies. The strongest evidence is actually for mothers that it can marginally reduce chance of breast cancer in later life.

Same with not introducing babies to bottle to confuse them when breastfeeding. Literally no concrete evidence for it.

Yet this is all pushed as clear cut facts by midwives and other health professionals.

why is it actually acceptable to make a thread like this, page after page of rubbishing breastfeeding? the other way round and it would be "have some compassion for those who couldnt or didnt want to breastfeed" "my midwife practically forced my nipple into babies mouth even though I said I didnt want to" bla bla. noone actually gives a flying rats arse if you formula feed and give even less of a shit what emily oyster thinks

[quote ReeseWitherfork]There is no evidence that formula feeding causes obesity.

But there is some evidence that it has no affect. The NHS claims it's a benefit of BF (reduced obesity) and I am curious why. They don't make a point of lying. It's bizarre.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16332664/[/quote]
'In absolute terms, 16.8% of children who were never breastfed were obese, compared with 13.2% who had been breastfed at some time and 9.3% of children breastfed for six months or more.

After adjustment for demographics, children who were never breastfed were 22% more likely to be obese and those who had been breastfed for less than six months were 12% more likely to be obese than children who were breastfed for six months. The protection for children who were exclusively breastfed for six months – with no formula or weaning foods involved – was even higher, at 25%. The data came from nearly 30,000 children monitored as part of the WHO Childhood Obesity Surveillance initiative (Cosi).'

www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/breastfeeding-reduces-child-obesity-risk-by-up-to-25-per-cent/

@Nevermindthefragglerocks you can’t use tap water to make up a bottle without boiling it first or use a bottle without sterilising it. So sorry, don’t think this is really a ‘this’ moment.

It’s a bit colonial too.

@Polyanthus2

you can. its like if 5% of bf babies get x illness and 10% of ff babies get it, then there's a 90% chance that the ff baby won't get it and a 95% chance a bf baby won't get it - ie not particularly significant at an individual level. but that difference is significant on a population level as 5% of babies is a lot of babies and if they all need treatment then it costs significantly more in terms of health care and potentially parents time off work etc.

I have three kids - EBF two of them for 6 months, not a drop of formula. Solely formula fed the other.

There's no difference. If anything, my formula fed child is the healthiest. None of my 3 have any allergies, but 1 of my BF ones has continuously low iron and also eczema, and the other BF one gets mouth ulcers. My formula fed one is as strong as an Ox! All the exact same weight.

Lots of the benefits associated with breastfeeding correlate to other things - generally breastfeeding mothers have a better level of education, higher household income etc, so that's why breastfed babies have better outcomes and are less likely to be obese etc etc. But all my three kids have the exact same upbringing, just one formula fed one, and zero differences in health or outcome.

And re: bonding, when I was breastfeeding the two that I breastfed, they would be staring at my boob, I'd use my free hand to Mumsnet or read a book. With my bottle fed baby, I had no free hand, so we would look at each other and our bond was by far the loveliest.

Also, with the breastfed two, I probably was stuck on the sofa feeding for 40+ mins every 2/3 hours. It took loads of time to breastfeed. I had to get a cleaner in because I couldn't cope. With my bottle fed one, it was 5/6 feeds of 15 mins a day. I had so so so much more time, I didn't need a cleaner or any extra help, so in reality formula feeding saved me £££ 😂

Thanks @DomesticatedZombie thats really interesting. No wonder it's such a hot topic when there's such conflicting "evidence" out there.

You are allowed to look at your baby when you’re breastfeeding them

I really think you don’t understand the point that’s being made @Tilltheend99 , the way formula is pushed in developing countries and why breastfeeding is important in those countries but not here.

this thread is honestly the worst I've seen on mumsnet for a long time.

insulting, derogatory and so factually incorrect at times it's almost laughable.

very very depressing and nasty.

@lavaa

Oh it’s harsh is it? As harsh as posts telling new mothers that they’re not doing their best for baby if they’re not BF? That they’re failing their child?

I’m not ‘onto anything’ @VelvetChairGirl.

I had never heard of Ostermilk until this thread. Nor Emily Oster.

I asked a question.

I observed that a woman questioning the benefits of breastfeeding having the same name as a (now defunct) formula company is an unfortunate coincidence.

And I also observed that there’s probably no conflict of interest. I’m sure she would be the first to make that clear, under the circumstances.

@DomesticatedZombie this is the issue with this research. I read that paper in full has a ton of omitted variables. It doesn’t control for

• physical activity of the child
• hours of television watched by the child
• food eaten by the child and diet
• child health issues or disability
• mothers bmi at time of birth
• family income

All of which have been shown in other studies to impact on obesity. You cannot conclude from that study that obesity is associated with formula. It’s incredibly flawed.

@lavaa

why is it actually acceptable to make a thread like this, page after page of rubbishing breastfeeding? the other way round and it would be "have some compassion for those who couldnt or didnt want to breastfeed" "my midwife practically forced my nipple into babies mouth even though I said I didnt want to" bla bla. noone actually gives a flying rats arse if you formula feed and give even less of a shit what emily oyster thinks

Not sure either side have covered themselves in glory as is always the way. Why click onto the thread though if you're not bothered.

@Tilltheend99
I fuck it - my first "this" and I quoted the wrong thing 🤦‍♀️
I was referring to the part about depressed mothers being made to feel like they have failed their babies. I was very much made to feel this way and I think that was way more damaging to my child than formula feeding ever could be.

@Babdoc

The real benefits of breast feeding only apply in the third world, where formula is made up with dirty water from unchlorinated sources, causing diarrhoea and deaths in infants. Here in the UK, it makes damn all difference, and as a doctor I am delighted that a credible statistician has finally published this. Perhaps we can now see the end of poor depressed mothers beating themselves up for “failing” to breast feed. A mafia of midwives and breast feeding mothers has controlled the narrative for far too long, to the detriment of women. Feed your baby by whatever method best suits you, secure in the knowledge that your way is as good as any other. And don’t let anyone guilt trip or pressure you.

Round of applause for this. The pressure midwives put women under is outrageous.

[quote MadameHeisenberg]@lavaa

Oh it’s harsh is it? As harsh as posts telling new mothers that they’re not doing their best for baby if they’re not BF? That they’re failing their child?[/quote]
this thread is made up of posters rubbishing breastfeeding - your post was very harsh and below the belt. you have clearly not read the thread and just read the OP and maybe the first page.

@lavaa

Oh give over. Is it hell ‘the worst thread on MN in a long time’. What you mean to say is you’re irked that it raises an important point and doesn’t confirm your preferred narrative of the blanket superiority of BF.

Are you one of those women who likes to use it to prove you’re a ‘better mummy’?

@Peasock because it mentions breastfeeding and minimal benefits and I breastfed? so was curious to see if there was genuinely some new information but shocking and obviously no there isnt, it's a book by Emily oyster who should be taken with a pinch of salt

I can't believe that breastfeeding and formula feeding are almost equal in benefit I am afraid, having been presented with evidence to the contrary for years as I work in this field. To me, giving birth and breastfeeding are fundamentals to being a woman. Maybe some people don't hold these 'achievements' as important, but those who consider them valuable should be listened to and it shouldn't just be drawn back to data and studies. The medical model of health has long been male dominated, and women have been and continue to be controlled by it. Holding these capabilities as a woman, and the importance they have for me, is one of the reasons I don't accept trans women being referred to as women. And I do believe I can spot some (not all) formula fed kids by their head shape! They often have misshapen heads due to long spells of laying on their backs. People will hate me for saying that one!

[quote MadameHeisenberg]@lavaa

Oh give over. Is it hell ‘the worst thread on MN in a long time’. What you mean to say is you’re irked that it raises an important point and doesn’t confirm your preferred narrative of the blanket superiority of BF.

Are you one of those women who likes to use it to prove you’re a ‘better mummy’?[/quote]
oh no it really is - most of the threads on here are a load of nonsense but I wouldnt want to be a new mum or a mum to be reading this thread.

would feel confused and like i would be a shit mum whichever route I took

I genuinely couldn't care less how anyone feeds, I thought your post was harsh which is why I said it. you're very aggressive arent you.

@lavaa

I have read the thread and there are multiple posts telling new mothers that they are essentially failing their babies by not BF. This is below the belt. Why the fuck would anyone care enough about how a stranger feeds their baby to say this? Because, they don’t actually care - all they want to do is try to elevate themselves by putting others down.

There is always going to be a great difficulty identifying what is just down to correlation and what is causation when looking at population level impacts from breastfeeding.

Some of the research however does focus on the biological mechanisms e.g www.jci.org/articles/view/128830 looks at how components of breastmilk prevent the growth of lipid-storing white adipose tissue which will have an impact on future obesity. Other studies show from a biological standpoint how specific components of breastmilk impact on the development of diabetes and the immune system.

All these impacts will however be pretty small at the level of the individual. It is when we are looking at the value to the population as a whole they are important.

[quote MadameHeisenberg]@lavaa

I have read the thread and there are multiple posts telling new mothers that they are essentially failing their babies by not BF. This is below the belt. Why the fuck would anyone care enough about how a stranger feeds their baby to say this? Because, they don’t actually care - all they want to do is try to elevate themselves by putting others down.[/quote]
and there isnt equal amounts of posters putting breastfeeding down?