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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Discharged within urinary catheter?

34 replies

SunshinePie · 13/03/2022 15:18

My grandmother (92) was discharged from hospital after a fall, with a urinary catheter. The ambulance crew literally just rung my doorbell and left her there - no warning she was being discharged. I’ve been trying to look after her, but she’s immobile so it’s pretty difficult, along with a 3 and 5 year old. The hospital have given me no teaching on what to do with the catheter, I’ve figured out how to empty it. I’ve been trying to call GP/District Nurse/Community nurse team, but just get answer machines. It’s only a small bag so I have to get up in the night to empty it. Is it normal to discharge someone with a urinary catheter?

OP posts:

Stroppypeople · 13/03/2022 15:23

Absolutely bloody shocking !! Contact the ward she came from for explanation and have they organised district nurse ….or have they forgotten she had a catheter in …absolutely nothing would surprise me .

Tereseta · 13/03/2022 15:26

Same happened with my mil but there was instructions and district nurse set up for daily visits. As pp said ring the ward and ask for an explanation.

watcherintherye · 13/03/2022 15:29

Was your grandmother living with you or independently, prior to her stay in hospital? Had you had discussions with the SW at the hospital as to where she would go, and any arrangements that needed to be in place? I wouldn't have thought that she should have been discharged to your care without you being aware of when she was coming, and the level of care needed. As well as the Community nurses, I should think you need to contact the Adult Social Care dept. of your local council.

I feel there is a whole level of discussion and planning for your grandmother's future care which seems to have been missed out? I'm sure there are MNers who know more about this and can hopefully advise.

Bonbon21 · 13/03/2022 15:30

Disgraceful.
You should at least have been informed and advised on the procedure... not to mention ASKED if you were willing to be her carer for personal needs.
They should also have provided a night bag.. an extension with a bigger bag so that you do not have to empty it so often/ during the night.
Get back on to the ward.. also contact her gp ... and register complaint to PALS.

HalloHello · 13/03/2022 15:32

That is absolutely terrible OP. I used to work in a urology ward and would need to do full training with the patient and carers and sign them off as competent before discharge. You should have been fully involved in their plan, as should the district nursing team and potentially carers too? Does she have a package of care?

Sounds like a fuck up, they forgot she had a catheter or something. Whatever has happened is wrong, I would call the ward she came from asap. Will likely be classed as a failed discharge and she'll be taken back to A&E until proper plans in place. I'm sorry you're going through this, some hospitals should be shut down. Absolutely shocking.

HalloHello · 13/03/2022 15:34

Also she should have been sent home with night bags which you attach to the catheter for over night so you don't have to get up overnight. So much has gone wrong here!!

LizDoingTheCanCan · 13/03/2022 15:34

The catheter is not unusual, the complete lack of planning and communication is atrocious (though sadly not unusual).

Call the ward today and ask them to refer you to the community nursing team. If you can't get through try to find the number for the community nursing hub. In my area they only come out at the weekend to end of life patients, but they can let you know what happens in your area.

BlanketsBanned · 13/03/2022 15:36

There is so much wrong here not just with the catheter, you can call the ward manager, discharge team and PALS to complain. If she is immobile does she have a bed, commode, equipment, has she even been assessed safe to go home.

CherryRipe1 · 13/03/2022 15:38

Precisely what @Bonbon21 said. That's just terrible leaving you like that. A nurse will need to remove it when necessary. Assuming it's a Foley cath it will need the water in the indwelling balloon deflated into a syringe to remove it.

SleepyRich · 13/03/2022 15:38

Regards being discharged with a catheter that in itself is quite normal. As you've no doubt worked out there's a valve at one end to empty into a jug. Just make sure it's properly locked off afterwards otherwise you'll have a mess. There should be a night bag in addition to the small day bag.

Is there a discharge letter with her? It may reference a plan for review in community by a short term intervention team or active recovery - normally occurs a day or two after discharge.

If you've got no information next step would be a call to GP to help with care planning/social referral for community support/carers, typically this is funded for 2 weeks after a discharge but any longer there's an assessment on ability to pay - it may well be this immobility/catheter is long term and is going to require either long term care visits that need to be paid for, or admission to respite/care home.

LizDoingTheCanCan · 13/03/2022 15:39

Will likely be classed as a failed discharge and she'll be taken back to A&E until proper plans in place.

While that is an option, given the state of A&E departments currently, it should be a last resort. There may not be anywhere to transfer the lady to, possibly not even a bed. I've seen cases where elderly people are left sat in a chair for the best part of a day (and night).

It may be possible to get rapid response carers to help, which the district nurses can arrange. They can be with a patient within hours, and provide support until an appropriate plan is in place.

Sirzy · 13/03/2022 15:46

She needs a night bag and stand rather than you having to go and empty during the night.

What is the plan long term? Who will be doing the changes?

It’s shocking that the information hasn’t been communicated before discharge.

Good luck getting answers. If you can get hold of the district nurses they can order night bags etc

Zippy1510 · 13/03/2022 15:50

You need to phone them. Catheters can easily lead to catheter associated urinary tract infection and sepsis if not handled properly.

ManateeFair · 13/03/2022 15:54

This happened to my dad - they discharged him with a catheter, gave my elderly mum about 15 seconds of verbal instruction on how to change it and sent them home. My mum and my brother both tried to change it unsuccessfully and the whole thing was a nightmare. My mum did eventually get a district nurse to come out, and she was appalled that they’d left my mum to deal with that with no proper advice or support.

FelicityBeedle · 13/03/2022 15:57

Does your grandmother seem quite ‘with it’?
I’m wondering if she’s very convincingly told the staff that she’s organised to be sent home to you, you’re expecting her and you’ll be fine with a catheter. It can happen more often than you think

PutinsMicropenis · 13/03/2022 16:04

Oh my goodness! Absolutely shocking but not surprising considering how utterly desperate hospitals are to discharge patients at the moment to free up bed space! What is your grandmother like mobility wise and have there been any assessments for equipment that may need to be provided to help her to get around? Does she live with you normally? If she is immobile it sounds like she needs carers is this something that can be arranged? Way too much for you to cope with if you have small children in the house also!!

At the VERY least you should have had catheter education and provision of spare and night bags, the risk of a UTI is quite high if not cared for properly. Night bags are pretty essential because if a small bag gets left overnight it can back up and cause kidney damage if the bladder is unable to empty because the day bag is full. I'd be calling the ward she came from and fixing them both barrels to be honest! Even the fact she was just dumped at home with no prior warning is really shocking, what if you weren't there??

BettyBag · 13/03/2022 16:08

In my extensive experience of poor hospital discharge the odds are that they were under the impression she came in with it.

Ring the ward. Kick off.

Beseen22 · 13/03/2022 16:12

Phone the ward (and then 111 if they aren't helpful) and get her readmitted as a failed discharge. If she's immobile with a catheter she's going to need assessed by physio and OT and equipment in place and most likely 4 x daily care. That is not going to happen over night. She will need district nurses to come in once every 12 weeks to change the catheter. I would also be raising a complaint to investigate why this has happened.

BettyBag · 13/03/2022 16:14

Please don't get her readmitted. Hospitals are horribly dangerous for frail people.

There are community services you can access to support with all this.

crosstalk · 13/03/2022 17:12

Sounds dreadful, OP. 111 would be another source of information. And PALS if the hospital doesn't respond. Was she living with you before her fall? Get all your ducks in a row and complain to the ward then to PALS and if no luck, the local press.

My MIL worked in the USA and had insurance. They still sent her home after an op and her husband had to do the catheritisation - untrained. Not only was it amateurish and undignified but she had UTIs ever after..

watcherintherye · 13/03/2022 17:53

Hospitals are horribly dangerous for frail people.

I'm afraid this has also been my experience over many years. Hospitals just don't have the capacity or staff to deal appropriately with the dependent elderly.

theemperorhasnoclothes · 13/03/2022 17:57

Same happened to an elderly family member recently. It was dreadful. No continuity of care with GPs and district nurse team. I think they're just so overwhelmed, and changing a catheter isn't that hard but obviously it is if you don't know what to do.

In the end family paid for a private carer to go in and change the bag, which needs to happen once a week. Elderly person can empty it themselves now they've seen how (from private carer). You have to be seriously incapable for the state to step in.

It's not great, but I bet it's pretty usual at the moment. Everyone seems entirely unconcerned that my elderly family member still has a catheter 2 months on. They're waiting on an appointment with urology and all we hear is 'it's a long wait'.

Hairyfairy01 · 13/03/2022 18:16

Ring the ward. You need night bags at the very least. How is she walking / getting out of a chair, getting in and out of bed? She she getting carer's? Did your grandma request to come home?

Duracellbunnywannabe · 13/03/2022 18:21

Definitely ring the ward.
Like pp have said she needs night bags and a stand, she may also need antibiotics to prevent an infection. You should also have been given the phone number for out of hours district nurses incase there are any problems.

Does she normally live with you?

Oblomov22 · 13/03/2022 19:29

Disgraceful. Why are we all not surprised though?

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